Unknown disease in my 3year black moor goldfish,please help

[dnalex 13,633]

Hello. I'm sorry to say, but it looks like your fish has deflated swim bladders and is now longer able to swim around anymore. She/He is what you call a sinker. He should still be OK, but will not be able to move much. You should consider making accommodations to help her/him, such as removing the gravel.

I'm really sorry, but I don't think there is much we can do to change the situation.

[ncris25 0]

:(

And what posible reasons are for that disease?He should be ok in rest?Does this minimize his hope of life?

Should I feed him only with gel foods (maybe they help him)?If yes,are there any recipes especially for SBD?

I will finish the prazi treatment anyway...because I've never done it.

I don't think I can remove the gravel because I have under it a lot of "sand",I don't know how it's called in english,it's that type of sand specially for plants,because in the past I had plants in the tank,and if I remove it my water will become really dirty and there are also chances to decycle again I think.

Edited September 20, 2012 by ncris25

[MissColonel 256]

:(

And what posible reasons are for that disease?He should be ok in rest?Does this minimize his hope of life?

Should I feed him only with gel foods (maybe they help him)?If yes,are there any recipes especially for SBD?

I will finish the prazi treatment anyway...because I've never done it.

I don't think I can remove the gravel because I have under it a lot of "sand",I don't know how it's called in english,it's that type of sand specially for plants,because in the past I had plants in the tank,and if I remove it my water will become really dirty and there are also chances to decycle again I think.

Once I fish starts to show SBD to become a sinker it is hard to fix since their swimmer bladder defaltes. Yes he can still have a quality life if you provide it for him. We do have members who do have sinker and seem to do pretty well. I am going to be making up some slings soon and writing about them once I get the supllies needed to least likely casue irriatation. I think completeling the prazi is a good idea but I also think removing the gravel over a month or 2 about 1/4 a cup a water change to reduce cycle bumps and any harmful bacteria that could be under it. Barebottom is what he is going to need to keep him safe from irritaion or infection. Goldfish really shouldn't have a thick layer of gravel since theey are such waste prodeucers and it can harbor lots of Bad bacteria specially if it is too thick. The best thing you can do for him is remove the gravel make sure he has clean water and he can be a happy goldie

[ncris25 0]

Ok thanks for the tip.

Another think is that he sometimes doesn't seem to breathe,I mean he doesn't move his gills or his mouth.What this means?

I have some snails in the tank,normal ones,I found one of them on the fish yesterday ,I think because he is bottom sitting ,in the snail's way , they can harm him?Do you think I should take them out from the tank?

[MissColonel 256]

No the snails are fine just try to keep his water as clean as possible right now and continue the prazi.

[ncris25 0]

Ok thanks

I will keep you updated.

[ncris25 0]

Today was his third day of the second cycle with prazi&metro gel food,from tomorow i will feed him with normal food for 4 days.

I wasn't home today,and now when I arrived I noticed that one of his front fins,from the side on which he leans,it's very dark-red coloured,especially at the base.I did a 30% water change(I did a 60%water change Wednesday also).I removed one cup of the gravel at the water change as you said.

It's because of his rubbing on the gravel or it's something else? :(I don't have a photo but it looks very simmilar with this fish's fin from the back ,the very red one.http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w139/wonton_fish/Picture061.jpg

My nitrite value is 0.025 since yesterday...maybe within a week it will dissapear.

Edited September 22, 2012 by ncris25

[tithra 4,917]

Could you maybe move the gravel to one side to clear out a bare bottom space for him to lay? If it were me personally I would go ahead and just remove all the gravel at once, then just keep a really close eye on your params and do extra water changes as necessary if you get a cycle bump from removing the gravel. Typically you want to remove it slowly, but because you have a fish that has no choice but to lay on it I would get rid of it asap.

The redness in the fin may be due in part to the gravel, but unfortunately because he is laying to one side this is likely going to be an ongoing issue. Sores and fin rot are not atypical in sinkers because they are sitting on the bottom of the tank, having their slime coat rubbed off, fins/body irritated, and being exposed to all the bacteria that is inevitably in a tank.

It is a lot easier when a fish sinks on their belly, when they sink to one side I found from experience that it is trickier to keep them healthy and provide them with quality of life I recently had to euthanize my fish Puff because he had begun to lay on one side and was within a week showing signs of fin rot and irritation on his face. He was also unable to eat without me holding him upright, your fish at least seems better off in that regard, and the fact that he is able to pull himself up off the tank floor even for a short time is a good thing

People have also made slings for sinkers to help them be upright at least some of the time, but this is unfortunately not a long term solution because they cannot be in the sling all the time and the sling itself comes with it's own issues, such as further irritating the body/fins of the fish. But there are several threads on this around the forum if you are interested.

Sorry this has happened to your beautiful fishy

[tithra 4,917]

could you post a pic of the affected fin?

[ncris25 0]

He lately stays on that fin a lot,most of the time he even stays on it folded

Here is the video....

I will try to do wc at 2 days and remove 1-2 cups of the gravel,because it's a lot of it...If I take out only once a week one cup,it will last forever.Also I don't want to decycle again....I struggled with that for the last month

[MissColonel 256]

The way things are we need to get rid of that gravel quick or he can get a infection I would just watch your water readings and do small daily water changes after the gravel is removed

[ncris25 0]

My poor fish seems to have only problems ...

Today I noticed that his "tail fin" has some parts white-ish,and seems a little"choped" Do you think it's fin rot?It looks a lot like this http://www.jbl.de/images/container/w200/50157.jpg

Edited September 24, 2012 by ncris25

[dnalex 13,633]

The fin issues could be from him being on the bottom so much. For fish that are stuck on the bottom, we really suggest getting rid of the gravel, because that contribute to a lot of bacterial issues.

[ncris25 0]

I understand the suggestion,I will make wc of 30% from the water at 2 days,before them I will remove about 3-4 cups of gravel.

I just removed 3 cups of it and did a 30% wc after,and my water is cloudy.I hope it's ok considering I take out a small amount of the gravel&soil and after that I do wc.

My fish is more active,I don't know what's the reason but he doesn't sit all day at the bottom as before,he struggles to swim for about a couple of minutes in an hour and succeeds,I will post a new video with him maybe tomorow.

The red-ish fin looks the same,not worse or better,do you think adding salt would be a good thing to prevent infections until I completely remove the gravel?

Edited September 25, 2012 by ncris25

[dnalex 13,633]

You can add salt to help with what's currently going on, but salt in the long term will just render salt useless, as the bacteria become tolerant.

[ncris25 0]

I finished the prazi rounds.In the last day of prazi,he refused to eat the medicated gel food,I don;t know why.

The fish is the same,he changed his colour ,he is now half orange& half black,he's very cute,too bad he is staying only at the bottom on one side I removed almost half of the gravel,and I continue to do it until it's gone.He doesn't have any issues like red fins ,I do wc's at 2-3 days of 50% to keep the water as clean as possible.He eats ,but most of the time I need to feed him from my hand because he struggles a lot to eat it from the bottom,and sometimes he doesn't eat because of that and the food remains there.

His belly on the side which he is staying,is quite flat because of his position

I will soon post a new video.

Edited October 7, 2012 by ncris25

[ncris25 0]

I forgot to tell that lately he keeps his mouth open almost all the time...but I don't think he keeps it like that because he can't close it,because sometimes he closes it,like when I feed him.But also the food is sometimes "escaping"from his mouth because of that.Any ideea what is that or what can I do?

[dnalex 13,633]

The collapsed mouth like that is a good indicator of flukes and/or secondary bacterial infections of gills and mouth.

Will you check the gills and mouth to see if there is anything unusual?

[ncris25 0]

The gills and mouth are looking ok,nothing unusual.

[dnalex 13,633]

Let's go ahead and try salting the tank to 0.3%, and we'll go from there. If nothing else, the salt will help him be a bit more comfortable.

[ncris25 0]

Unfortunately he died yesterday.I hope he is now in a better place Thank you for all your help.

[MissColonel 256]

Oh no I am so sorry R.I.P