Patches is not eating :-(

[IsabellaG]

Test Results:

• Ammonia Level 0
  
• Nitrite Level 0
  
• Nitrate level between 0 and 5 - dark yellow, not orange
  
• Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.8
  
• Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.8
  Other Required Info:
  
• Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API
  
• Water temperature? 19 C
  
• Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 53 gallons, 9 m.
  
• What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? Eheim 2215 canister with outlet wand and internal Eheim 2012 with air diffuser
  
• How often do you change the water and how much? weekly 50-70%
  
• How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? Yesterday 90% and Friday last week 50%
  

• How many fish in the tank and their size? Patches 5 cm (w.o. tail) - Ruby is in Quarantine still
  
• What kind of water additives or conditioners? Prime
  
• What do you feed your fish and how often? once a day Spirulina flakes (pre-soaked in tank water), blood worms (1xweek), spinach or peas (1x week)
  
• Any new fish added to the tank? No
  
• Any medications added to the tank? No
  
• List previous issues experienced (dropsy, SBD, etc.) Flukes
  
• List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.
  
• One earlier fluke treatment maybe 3 months ago then on 6 July started Prazi and again early August see earlier threads below.
  
• Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? Nope
  
• Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? For the past 10 days Patches has not eaten. I've tried her normal food - spirulina flakes (pre-soaked), bloodworms, peas, spinach, orange and gel food. She tries and then spits out the food. I think she has lost weight and I haven't seen her poop in a while either. Three days ago I started syringe feeding her. I soaked the gel food to a very fine mash and gave that to her. I think I got some into her. I tried the same with mashed up peas and that didn't work. I've looked in her mouth and although I can't see anything blocking her, it does look much, much smaller than Ruby's mouth (cavern)
  
• See: http://www.kokosgold...__fromsearch__1) and http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/forum/index.php?/topic/101786-rubys-mouth-is-looking-weird/page__fromsearch__1 for previous postings.
  
• I've got a video, but Ruby's video hasn't loaded yet in the meantime I'll load some pics.
  

Thanks everyone,

isabella.

[dnalex]

Hi Isabella,

I'm sorry Patches isn't well either

Is she still interested in food, but is spitting it out after chewing, or has she become completely disinterested?

[IsabellaG]

Hi Alex,

Yeah, and on top of Pebbles having a tail biting episode again, this time I saw it! These fish are a worry!

Patches is still interested, but spitting it out after chewing. Must totally frustrate her/him.

[IsabellaG]

Pics, vid is loading

Edited August 21, 2012 by Isabella

[dnalex]

It can be really frustrating. Poor patches.

I think Ruby's & Patches' issues are related, actually, and I think they both stem from flukes. In Patches case, the flukes may be causing gill irritations, or she is getting secondary infections causing irritations of mouth/gills. Hence the spitting out of food.

There are a few things I would like to try:

1. Re-Prazi the tank + 0.3%. This should take care of possible fluke issues, and the salt will help to heal the irritations.

2. Go ahead and feed the metro-food to Patches as well. I really think that the issues are related. You may have to syringe feed for some while though, until she can eat again on her own.

[IsabellaG]

Thanks Alex, I was suspecting that Ruby's and Patches' issues were related.

Should I make a separate batch of medicated gel food for Patches? Patches is quite a bit smaller (and much slimmer) than Ruby?

I'm going to put Ruby back in the big tank and put Patches in the quarantine tank (it's hard chasing Patches around the big tank).

Should I Prazi+salt both tanks? I need to check how much Prazi I have left.

[dnalex]

Helen and I have been discussing this, and we both think it's fine to move them both back into the big tank to treat. The Metro-gel is fine for both, although Patches being smaller will eat less.

I'm not going to worry about weighing her just yet, since for at least a little while anyway, you will need to syringe the food to her. Give her as much as she can comfortably eat.

[IsabellaG]

That's great, thanks Alex and Helen.

Yay, I've put Ruby back in the big tank :-)

Here are some picks. Patches might be a boy after all :-) He was definitely doing some chasing and head butting, and showing an interest in Ruby's bottom.

[IsabellaG]

I've enough Prazi left for a couple of treatments.

Should I follow the treatment schedule as per bottle: 1 tablet (100mg Prazi per tab) per twenty litres of water, after 48 hours change approximately 25% of the water (replacing salt) and repeat once after 7 days to prevent re-infestation?

I'll start salt and prazi this evening (have to cook dinner now)

It's so good to see them both together again :-)

[IsabellaG]

Eeeks, Ruby is starting to do that shaking thing with her head again. The shaking and the violent yawning is what caused her jaw to dislocate. I am afraid for a relapse if it continues, so I've put her back in the quarantine tank. I've made a small video before I put Ruby back and I'll post that after dinner. Can it be that my big tank is infested even after all those rounds of Prazi that I did?? Yuck, I need to get rid of these pesty bugs, how to nuke them??? I'd been slowly getting rid of the gravel in the big tank, do flukes 'hide' in the gravel?

Need to go and hurry dinner along and then I'll post the video and start salt and prazi treatment.

[bagh]

I'm sending healing vibes on your way. Best wishes.

[IsabellaG]

thanks Bagho, much appreciate your good thoughts.

Here is the video of Ruby flashing. It's at the end at approx 0.30 sec in. She never displayed this behaviour in the quarantine tank. What is going on in my big tank???

[bodoba]

Just wondering, do you have a shot of your whole tank? Just in case there's anything wrong with what's in the tank.

[IsabellaG]

Here is a photo of the whole tank.

There is a thin layer of gravel wich I've started taking out - right hand of the tank is now bare bottom

Intake and spraybar of the Eheim canister on the left and internal Eheim filter on the right

I've got a big piece of driftwood that gets scrubbed at the weekly water change (and soaked in a solution of melafix)

I've only got silk plants and short grass plants that are made from very soft plastic.

Parameters have been very stable (knock wood) at Am. 0, Nitri. 0, Nitra. between 0 and 5, Ph 7.8

It must be flukes, but it's disheartening that after a fluke treatment in june (2 rounds) and in July / August (2+2 = 4 rounds all together), the tank still seems to be heavily infected. I've salted the tanks, mixing Prazi now

[dnalex]

Go ahead and keep them separate for now and treat with Prazi as planned. In a couple of days, try moving Ruby back again.

Good luck!

[IsabellaG]

Will do, both tanks now Prazi'ed and salted to 0.2%

I have been syringe feeding Patches and it is going well. I have to catch him with a net because he's too small and I don't handle him as confidently as I do Ruby. I carefully cup him in my right hand, lift his head out of the water (gills just under the water) and with the syringe in my left hand slowly feed him. I hope/think he's getting some food albeit in very small quantities. I might start feeding him a couple more times a day. Thanks Alex and Helen, I will update in a few days.

Edited August 23, 2012 by Isabella

[IsabellaG]

Here is an update on Patches feeding. I've been syringe feeding since 18 August - about two weeks now with eight days of syringe feeding gel food with metrodinazole in it. It is difficult to say how much food Patches was actually ingesting. It did look like at the start he was getting some food inside him, but in very tiny amounts. For the last couple of days Patches has been spitting out food that he gets (syringe) fed and does the same for food that I just put in the tank. He seems to be getting weaker (I don't think this is from the ph issue I had last night). This morning I've observed that Patches is bottom sitting every now and again and he is just the slightest bit wobbly in the current.

Q's: I'm gonna set up the Q-tank for Patches. Can I put Metro straight in the tank and will Patches be able to get some inside him that way??? If yes, how much should I give? Helen sent me a generous amount so I still have metro tablets. :-) Is there anything else I can do to get him to eat?? I've tried infusing the food with garlic, but that didn't help.

I've put Ruby back in the tank yesterday and she is loving all the space!!! The girl's energy is back 10 fold!!

BTW, It looks like the last prazi round finally got rid of the flukes (holding my breath, keeping fingers crossed).

Q: The big tank currently just has clean water in it. Should I put salt back in? If yes at 0.1, 0.2 or 0.3%?

Here is a link to a video of last night and the story of the Ph problem I had too. Tank Ph was 7.6 yesterday. I'll test tank and tap in a short while and post. The rest of parameters is the same as in below post.

http://www.kokosgold...__fromsearch__1

Edited September 2, 2012 by Isabella