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Sweetmochi

Blackmoor Dying?

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Hi everyone, our 2-year old goldfish Blackie seems to be on her last legs / fins. She was in a 100-liter tank with 4 fantails but about a month or so ago started being quite sluggish. Just 2.5 months ago she had eggs and my partner gently massaged her belly to release the eggs. We're not sure now whether the egg-laying has anything to do with her swim bladder problem. (We assume it is swim bladder.)

From about a month ago she would swim up / around for a feed but mainly stay at the bottom. At the same time her tail started to look tattered which we thought was finrot. We put some finrot treatment in the tank and some aquarium salts. However from last Saturday she started to just lie on her side so we moved her to a 10-liter (2.6 gallon) bucket. The actual water volume is only 8 liters or so. We don't have a hospital tank so we tried to set the bucket up with half water from the tank and some new water conditioned with Prime and Stability, and some aquarium salts. The bucket has a small UV filter and aerator in it too. We fasted Blackie for 2 days based on some advice I read somewhere and then started feeding her mashed up peas (1-1.5 pieces) since then once a day. Halfway through the week we did a small water change (a quarter of the water in bucket) and again conditioned with some Prime, Stability and aquarium salt.

Not really sure if all of this is helping as she doesn't really move :( She will shuffle forward or backward a bit but that's all. She has been eating the peas but we have to hand-feed her now as she doesn't seem to have the strength to move much.

Any advice on the following would be great:

- Is using a UV filter okay or does this kill all the good bacteria? (We don't have anything else at the moment)

- Is it beneficial for her to be in the bucket or should she be in the main tank? (Main tank PH, ammonia / nitrates / nitrites are all within spec)

- Should we feed her other fish food aside from peas?

- Her tail still doesn't look too good. Should we medicate for finrot as well? (We put some PIMAFix in the bucket the first 3 days but then stopped as I read somewhere that if a fish is too weak the organs may not be able to process the meds.)

- How often should we do water changes for the bucket?

Any help would be appreciated :(

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First thing I see is your tank is way to small for that many fish. So until you can get a 50 gallon or bigger tank you need to do daily large water changes.

Next we are going to need all the info at the top filled out. This well help us help you.

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Last water test results for bucket water:

PH - 7

Ammonia - 0.25 ppm

Nitrite - 0.25 ppm

(We added in Prime due to the above results).

Nitrate - 0ppm

Brand of test kit - API Freshwater Master Test Kit (drops)

UV Filter - UView Aquarium Purifier for aquariums up to 200 liters, with 9 watts UV lamp

Hope this helps...

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hello and welcome to koko's. i am sorry that your Blackie is not feeling well.

there could be many contributing factors, as you said, she was egg bound and now showing other problems. some of this can be due to water quality and the with the water change routine you have. i can tell you that for the tank you have, you are overstocked.

to get a better understanding of the situation, please answer all the questions asked at the top with actual water param numbers so that we know how to assit you further. some pictures and a short video would be great too.

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hun, which State in Aus are you?

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Hi, I am in Brisbane. I am guessing our tank was overcrowded but she's now in a bucket on her own (in 8 liters of water). She's been in there for a week now and we've done two water changes so far. Sorry I must have posted the bucket water numbers just as you posted a response:

PH (bucket) - 7

Ammonia - 0.25 ppm

Nitrite - 0.25 ppm

(We added in Prime due to the above results).

Nitrate - 0ppm

Brand of test kit - API Freshwater Master Test Kit (drops)

UV Filter - UView Aquarium Purifier for aquariums up to 200 liters, with 9 watts UV lamp

Hope this helps...

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Still figuring out how to upload pix or video from my Mac sorry. Should have one up soon.

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is there any chance you can upgrade her to a 5 gallon or more, preferably 10 gallon tub? it has to be a food safe tub.

for a tub so small and a fish this sick, daily to twice daily water changes need to be made. what filter do you have in there? is the main tank cycled? if so, can you get some filter media from the cycled filter and seed the qt filter?

what are you feeding her and how often?

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Here are photos of Blackie when she was in the main tank (100l) and then now in the small bucket:

Main tank

0b2211c1.jpg

Small bucket

42cbaa99.jpg

is there any chance you can upgrade her to a 5 gallon or more, preferably 10 gallon tub? it has to be a food safe tub.

for a tub so small and a fish this sick, daily to twice daily water changes need to be made. what filter do you have in there? is the main tank cycled? if so, can you get some filter media from the cycled filter and seed the qt filter?

what are you feeding her and how often?

Hi stakos, thanks for responding... ! I haven't got any other tubs now but can buy larger one tomorrow.

Filter in the small bucket is a UV filter (UView Aquarium Purifier for aquariums up to 200 liters, with 9 watts UV lamp).

Main tank is cycled. The UV filter I am using for the bucket has a tiny sponge. I can seed it with squeezed water from the main tank's filter but the UV filter sponge is really tiny as I guess it relies on the lamps to kill the bad stuff? Here's how the filter looks like:

http://www.hollywood...er-9watt/m/994/

Currently feeding Blackie 1-1.5 mashed pea once a day (morning only) in the bucket. In the past we fed her Tetrafin Goldfish crisps in the main tank.

Edited by Sweetmochi

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hun, she's pineconed :( this can be very bad. when was the last time she ate? do you find her to be more rounder than usual? ie, puffed up behind the gills?

please tell me if you can upgrade to a 5-10 gallon and if you can get a small filter even that you can put some cycled media in it tomorrow from the main tank. then we can talk about getting some appropriate meds to you..

but, we cannot treat until she has bigger space and you are comitted to daily water changes.

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do you think you can gently rub her belly some more in case she's still got eggs in her? this could be the root of the problem. they may be creating bacteria within her.

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Oh no :( Didn't notice until you said so that she is pineconed!

She last ate this morning. As she can't swim to the top anymore my daughter hand-feeds her the peas every morning. It's really sweet that she trusts us enough to eat from fingers :( She eats whatever she is fed and I've seen a few green poops come out which hopefully means the peas are getting digested. She is a bit red around the gills, like her blood vessels are much more visible. Occasionally she will seem to gulp and gasp for air.

Will definitely get her a bigger bucket and another kind of filter with media that can be seeded from main tank tomorrow.

She is our baby and out of all our goldfish she had the most character and personality so we're definitely going to do all we can to help her get better. I only hope it's not too late.

And will try to rub her belly in the morning to see if anything comes out. She seems to be resting now. (kitchen is darkened for her)

Thanks stakos

Edited by Sweetmochi

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try to rub her belly and see if she will expell more eggs.

the tub you buy tomorrow, just make sure it's food safe as well as 5 gallons or more.. bunnings have a tubs for kitchen section in their store, otherwise dimmey's or other stores like that will have them. the filter, from wherever you can buy it from, but, make sure it will turn the water volume to the new tub accordingly.

if you can get an airstone and pump as well as a heater, the heater is essential as you will need to raise the temp from whatever it is now to 28-30C for all this to work..

email me your postal address to sparez@bigpond.net.au and i will send you the meds we know work so that you can make medicated gelfood.. don't worry, we will help you with doses and step you through how to make it. i will send them monday morning via express post. you cannot buy them from your goldfish shop and to avoid vet expenses, i can just send them to you. i have a spare heater if you want me to express post that to you also and you can just post it back when you're done with treatment.

you will also need epsom salts. if you don't have any, please get some from the local supermarket or pharmacy.

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Have just sent you an email. Am really overwhelmed by the positive (and immediate!) support here and it means so much to have some direction to what we're doing. How much do I need to pay and how? We've got a spare heater (which is too big for the bucket now but will be good for the bigger tub tomorrow).

:)

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ok.. hun, there is no need for money exchange. it's all good. i will check for the email now. as soon as you have the new tub and the heater, please let me know, i will help you with dosing the Epsom salts..

have you rubbed her tummy again to see if she has more eggs to release?

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hun, i haven't received your email yet. can you check the email address is correct?

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Good morning and thank you for your generosity. The Bigpond server setting on my mobile was iffy last night but the email has gone through this morning. We massaged her belly gently for half a minute but nothing else came out. Should we keep doing it? Have fed her another pea and a half this morning. She's still on her side. Leaving for Bunnings / Pet Farm now. Will try to put 75% of water from small bucket and condition more water to fill larger bucket. Is that the right way to do it? How much Epsom salt should we put into a 10 gallon bucket?

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ok, i think the massaging you did is enough. if she's eating, that's a good sign. please get a rectangular tub, not a round bucket (just so that we understand eachother). we will discuss Epsom when you return and have the tub with heater and filter all set up. ok?

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Hello, got back from Bunnings and have now got a 26 L (approx 6 gallon) rectangular bucket. Will be using around 6 liters water from small bucket, and around 15 liters new water. Have put Prime and Stability in, and just seeding the new filter sponge with media from main (big) tank. Is 20 mins or so enough to seed?

New filter is an Aqua One Maxi 101 f (a smallish filter with sponge for media). Have got heater too and will set it up to 22C when I put Blackie in. Am planning to just let the "new" water cycle through filter for a few hours before I put Blackie and 6 liters of small bucket water in.

Have got Epsom salts and aerator too. Uhm, I think we should be all set in a few hours once new water has cycled?

Edited by Sweetmochi

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Hello again. Figured that we didn't have too much time to seed the new media and cycle the new water through the filter. Have now set up new 26-liter bucket with heater, aerator and filter:

770a0099.jpg

Heater is at 22 degrees C for now (room temp was 21C). Am planning to increase to 24 in 1-2 hours.

Blackie seems to like being by the aerator (don't know why this is). Should we add the Epsom salts now?

She still looks the same except her one eye seems to have a white film over it. :(

Edited by Sweetmochi

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what is the PH value in the qt tub? can you do a reading on all water params? PH, Ammonia, Nitrites and Nitrates? i am more interested in PH and Ammonia at this stage, but all 4 results would be good,.

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PH = 7.6 (need to add PH down?)

Ammonia - 0.50 PPM

Nitrite - 0.5PPM

Nitrate - 5PPM

Test Kit: API Freshwater Master Test Kit

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no, the PH is very ideal :)

i do want you to do a big water change to the tune of 70% and when replenishing water you will add the epsom, i will work out the dosage now. it's a VERY small amount, but it's highly effective.

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That's good to hear about the PH. Sorry just wanted to check - more than half the water in the QT bucket is new (16L out of the 21 liters)... Should I still do a 70% water change?

Also the heater is now at 24 degrees C. Is that okay?

Edited by Sweetmochi

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yes, the ammonia, nitrites need to be 0.. so. complete the waterchange. i got called away to something momentarily.. brb with the epsom amount.

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