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spillie

Time for a wen-trimming?

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I'm so sorry, rip little baby.

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I’m so sorry to hear this ):

It was probably a combination of the stress of clove, wen trimming and the drop. ):

But Spillie, you were trying your best to give this fish a comfortable quality of life and please try not to feel too bad. Good thoughts your way. ):

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aaaaww crap! hun, i am so sorry... really... that really sux, i wish i was there to give you a hug :(

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I am so sorry this happened to you :(

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Thanks for the kind words, everyone. My poor little fish... Despite what I read, that wen trimming was similar to cutting nails or hair, I realize now that this is not the case as it was clear it hurt the fish, even under anesthesia, when I trimmined the wen. Because I had that in my mind, though, I really thought this would be straighforward: the fish would be anesthesized, I'd trim away, and then put him in clean water and he'd wake up. I really did not expect any problems beyond the difficulty of cuttting the rubbery wen.

I'll never know exactly where I went wrong, but I think I trimmed too much at one time and also think I overdosed the clove oil, even though still within the "anesthesia limits". If I were going to do it again--and I have to say that I really do not think I ever, ever will--I would use a proper med, have the fish under lighter anesthesia, and trim a bit less at one time. I found it easy to trim around the eyes (and I protected the eyes with a flat, dull-edged small metal thing I have), but it was quite hard to trim the front, which was all one big thick piece and I think I took off too much there at once. But, honestly, I am not sure. Just sorry.

Edited by spillie

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Aww, I'm very sorry to hear this. How awful.

I did kill fish through my good intentions, and I think the problem was that those fish were too weak for the salt dip that I gave them. I felt bad about it for a long time. I wonder if that was a factor for you too. Perhaps he was bottom sitting because of more than the big wen and he wasn't strong enough for that much stress. :(

Edited by ShawneeRiver

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Aww, I'm very sorry to hear this. How awful.

I did kill fish through my good intentions, and I think the problem was that those fish were too weak for the treatment I gave them. I felt bad about it for a long time. I wonder if that was a factor for you too. Perhaps he was bottom sitting because of more than the big wen and he wasn't strong enough for that much stress. :(

Oh, thanks for that thought, Shawnee. It could be...he did have a tumor on his tail, and his body was stunted and then he had this enormous overgrown wen..he wasn't quite normal, but was very sweet--but perhaps, not so very strong...

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I did learn that they aren't all equal. I felt like such a jerk that I didn't talk about this much, but I did kill my two celestials. They were always a little off, so I decided to prazi the tank and start everyone off with salt dips. Everyone was fine, but the two celestials died almost immediately after the dip. :(

Edited by ShawneeRiver

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You did the right thing for him in the end. what kind of life is it if you are miserable. It was try to help him or nothing.

May he RIP

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You did the right thing for him in the end. what kind of life is it if you are miserable. It was try to help him or nothing.

May he RIP

Thank you, Ashlee. :heart

The big takeaway for me is that the line between what we think of as sedation (breathing , but not moving) and death in fish is very thin. Next time, I would not redip a fish unless it really seemed to be coming out of the anesthesia. For this particular fish, I think a combo of a bit too much clove (even though within the various guidelines I found) and too much exposure through repeated dipping were too much for him. Next time, I would do as Amber suggested and sedate only to the point I could hold him, but at the time, since he was jerking when I cut, I thought he was not sedated enough, even though he was otherwise not moving. I also (personally) would not use clove oil again. I just hope this experience can help someone else... I found good info online about the procedure, but was missing personal experience of actual sedation, so basically, in my mind, was expecting it to be like sedation in mammals--but for whatever reason (lack of precision in dosing, type of anesthetic, etc) I have learned it is not.

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The big takeaway for me is that the line between what we think of as sedation (breathing , but not moving) and death in fish is very thin.

Don't beat yourself up over it. Think about it -- that's a thin line with any living creature, even people. That's why every operation has a doctor devoted to just the anesthesia.

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I did learn that they aren't all equal. I felt like such a jerk that I didn't talk about this much, but I did kill my two celestials. They were always a little off, so I decided to prazi the tank and start everyone off with salt dips. Everyone was fine, but the two celestials died almost immediately after the dip. :(

I remember Amy once saying something to the effect that goldfish are such fragile little souls. It can be a gutwrenching hobby, caring for these lttle creatures, and I know too well the awful feeling that lingers when something goes wrong..I am sorry you lost your celestials. Shawnee.

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I'm sorry for your loss. It was nice that you were trying to help him. I'm sorry you lost him that way.

I too, killed a fish with a salt dip. Went instantly after it had been clamping for awhile. Sometimes the stress is too much. I hope you get to feeling better soon and maybe find a new goldy and try again when you are up to it.

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I recently did my first wen trimming on my Tancho Oranda, Tenshi. Her beautiful black eyes eyes were almost completely covered by her wen. I followed the instructions in Rick Hess's book from Goldfish Connection using their clove oil, 3 aerated water vessels(one with plain tank water, one with 3 drops clove oil per gallon and one with 5 drops per gallon), iris scissors and a #10 scalpel. I ordered the surgical tools inexpensively from Amazon.com. I also watched some videos on Youtube. It was much easier than I expected. I was able to clear the excess wen from her eyes and then revive her very quickly in the fresh water. She was immediately swimming around my hospital tank where I kept her under observation for a week. I then returned her to my large tank with my other goldfish with zero complications.

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I recently did my first wen trimming on my Tancho Oranda, Tenshi. Her beautiful black eyes eyes were almost completely covered by her wen. I followed the instructions in Rick Hess's book from Goldfish Connection using their clove oil, 3 aerated water vessels(one with plain tank water, one with 3 drops clove oil per gallon and one with 5 drops per gallon), iris scissors and a #10 scalpel. I ordered the surgical tools inexpensively from Amazon.com. I also watched some videos on Youtube. It was much easier than I expected. I was able to clear the excess wen from her eyes and then revive her very quickly in the fresh water. She was immediately swimming around my hospital tank where I kept her under observation for a week. I then returned her to my large tank with my other goldfish with zero complications.

What were there two vessels with clove for? Was the 5 for the initial and 3 to keep the sedation going? And, how active was she when she was sedated? I also researched and watched videos on youtube, etc., but had disasterous results as you know... but I cut more than just the around the eyes and had higher concentration of clove oil...

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Oh spillie, i wish i saw this thread before today, i could have guided you on how to do it...................i've done a fair few trims in 4yrs...

i'm really sorry..................

i won't say what went wrong(unless you wanna know).....now is not the time

but in future, if you need to do one, i'll go thru it with you...............it truly works

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I recently did my first wen trimming on my Tancho Oranda, Tenshi. Her beautiful black eyes eyes were almost completely covered by her wen. I followed the instructions in Rick Hess's book from Goldfish Connection using their clove oil, 3 aerated water vessels(one with plain tank water, one with 3 drops clove oil per gallon and one with 5 drops per gallon), iris scissors and a #10 scalpel. I ordered the surgical tools inexpensively from Amazon.com. I also watched some videos on Youtube. It was much easier than I expected. I was able to clear the excess wen from her eyes and then revive her very quickly in the fresh water. She was immediately swimming around my hospital tank where I kept her under observation for a week. I then returned her to my large tank with my other goldfish with zero complications.

What were there two vessels with clove for? Was the 5 for the initial and 3 to keep the sedation going? And, how active was she when she was sedated? I also researched and watched videos on youtube, etc., but had disasterous results as you know... but I cut more than just the around the eyes and had higher concentration of clove oil...

Yes, The 5 drop solution was for the initial sedation and the 3 drop to keep her sedated throughout the surgery. However, I agree that the Goldfish Connection's bottle dropper is difficult to use. I would recommend removing the plastic dropper on their bottle and dipping a real dropper for correct dosing. In addition, Tenshi did squirm some. But I preferred to keep her on the safe end of sedation and just kept a firm hold of her.

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I actually used a 1ml syringe.

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i use a basic pipette

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and this " ...safe end of sedation and just kept a firm hold of her"

i rarely go beyond the 5 drops, (for really big strong ones i may go an extra drop or wait a minute longer................but thats all)

when its a large wen piece, rather than take the entire whole thing off in one, i take small peices and keep at it.....

i use clove oil too

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also depending whether its the right eye or the left eye, i hold the fish with its head at an angle(so if the fish struggles, her eyes are as far from the blade as possible), slip the sisscors under the wen and can get a good clean cut.

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At all times thru the trimming, i keep an eye on how long she's been out of the water, how i'm holding her so as not to cover her gills, and that the blade is no where near her eyes.....

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I used a small, dull butter spreader type thing to place over the fish's eye when I was cutting there, to prevent an accident. That part worked well. ...

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I used a small, dull butter spreader type thing to place over the fish's eye when I was cutting there, to prevent an accident. That part worked well. ...

so you wasn't holding the fish whilst cutting? you laid the fish down?

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Oh no, I only just read this thread. i'm so sorry this happened to you Spillie!

You did the best you could and I think that he may have been not strong enough to handle it in the first place.

Big hugs for you and RIP little fishie

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