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Tiny bump on side and some bottom sitting behavior


bmblsad

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OK.

If you are just adding Metro+ back, then you need to add 26 grams of the powder to the water. That will give the 400mg/10 gallons that Helen uses.

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Okay, just finished the water change of 10gallons. Replaced 1/4 tsp of epsom salts and added 26grams of metro+.

Tomorrow evening I'll do another 10gallon water change.

- That will be the end of the 4th day for the epsom salts. Do I stop it tomorrow? Or keep going if he's still pineconed?

- Also, the metro+ instructs to do a partial to full water change daily and retreat. So if I change out 10gals again tomorrow, do I add the 26grams of metro+ back in again to keep it at 400mg?

You know if my algebra teacher had told me I might use my math skills for something such as this, I might have paid more attention! Thanks again Alex for sharing your mathematical skills.

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yes hun, during treatement, any time you do a WC, we have to consider replacing meds. so that would be great. the maximum we can keep a fish in epsom is 8 days. have you seen improvement in his swelling? have the scales come down a little yet?

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I think the swelling has come down a small amount, but I don't see much change in the scales or his rather bulging eyes. BUT - HE JUST ATE SOME GEL FOOD!!! :clapping: I hope that is a good sign that he is reversing direction. I realize this is still a long road, but at least he has finally eaten something. Increasing the meds from 250 to 400mg yesterday must have made a difference. So I will keep that up with the water changes. Alex - can you do the math for me again? I'll be changing out 10gallons again, so would I do the 26grams of metro+ again?

If his scales are still raised, should I continue the epsom salts as well?

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. BUT - HE JUST ATE SOME GEL FOOD!!! :clapping:

OMG! i just squealed! lol.. good work!! yaaay!

ok, pump him with as much MetroMeds as he can possibly eat, but don't overdo it :D

yes, continue to use the Epsom for the full 8 days :)

oh man, i have my fingers crossed, double crossed and triple crossed that we're headed in the right direction :heart

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Hi Beth, from now on, if you just change out 10 gallons, you need only add back 20 grams of Metro+. Each 10 grams is enough to treat 5 gallons :)

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Just a bit of happy dancing going on here, too! :carrot: I will start pumping him with metromeds and keep all fingers crossed. Does make it rather difficult to type however ;-)

Edit: tried the metromeds but he just ignored them. Drat. I will keep trying periodically through the day. Also, I do see another very tiny cyst on his left side up near the gill. Just a little bit of white matter is oozing out of it now.

Edited by bmblsad
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I don't want to get too excited or ahead of myself, but...he's eating the metromeds and has done a bit of swimming and rooting through the bits of gravel in his tank. The swimming never lasts too long before he's back in the corner resting but it is rather amazing to see. Scales are still protruding, though not as much, and he's still somewhat oddly shaped. But maybe he's on the mend. :please:heart

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Dave continues to improve! This morning he swam to the top when I fed him and did several laps around the tank. I'm also seeing more poo although it is white and somewhat hollow, almost like a casing. But at least something is being expelled. His vent is still stretched and he is still somewhat oddly shaped, but scales are down and eyes are no longer bulging. I have to spend most of the day away today but I'm pretty confident when I return that he'll look even better.

Thank you again Alex and Helen for guiding me through this - there is no way I could have done it alone. And thanks also to all those who have been silently pulling for him. I have learned much about the health of goldfish and the kindness of people. :thanks

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yaaaay for dave! this is an awesome update :) although we've got a long way to go, please understand, this can still go either way depending on what it is that lead to dropsy. we need to try and figure out why it is that dave dropsied.

dropsy is a symptom to most often a bacteria. we need to find and eliminate from the main tank what triggered the dropsy..

how often do you clean the filter(s)? and when you do clean them, what is the process? how about the rest of the set up? when you wc, do you wipe down all internal walls? hollow ornaments? do you have driftwood?

would you be able to post a short video of the tank set up showing ornaments, plants, gravel? perhaps we can help you to find or minimize the risk of bacteria returning again? the bacterial cycst may have caused this and sometimes they just appear out of nowhere as i found with rocky, but sometimes, their environment can be a contributing factor.

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I do believe we've had a reversal, though I'm not sure exactly what's going on. I came home tonight, about 40 minutes ago, and he seemed to be okay. He was resting in the corner per usual and started swimming around when I turned on the light. Looked pretty good actually. Then, I fed him two pellets of metromeds which he gobbled. I then started my water change. As I sat there siphoning out the water, I watched him start to list to the left as he rested in the corner. Then, when he swam, he appeared to be having issues staying upright. He hasn't flipped over completely, but he is spending more time on his side than upright. Sigh. And things were going well. Is it possible I didn't soak the metromeds long enough and they're creating some buoyancy issues? Or is it something worse...?

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I do believe we've had a reversal, though I'm not sure exactly what's going on. I came home tonight, about 40 minutes ago, and he seemed to be okay. He was resting in the corner per usual and started swimming around when I turned on the light. Looked pretty good actually. Then, I fed him two pellets of metromeds which he gobbled. I then started my water change. As I sat there siphoning out the water, I watched him start to list to the left as he rested in the corner. Then, when he swam, he appeared to be having issues staying upright. He hasn't flipped over completely, but he is spending more time on his side than upright. Sigh. And things were going well. Is it possible I didn't soak the metromeds long enough and they're creating some buoyancy issues? Or is it something worse...?

I have been observing him now for about 40 minutes. While the listing to the side isn't as bad as it was, it's still evident. Puzzled.

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i wonder if the temperarture affected him during the water change? are you matching temp and PH? as well as remembering to plug the heater in? any one of these three factors or all 3 combined can cause complications during their treatment period.

as tithra suggested, a vid of his behavior (just a short one) would be ideal and i would still like to see a vid of the entire tank set up when you get a chance.

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Well, I'm happy to report that Dave is still with us this morning. But so are the buoyancy issues. I have read that dropsy can result in problems with the swim bladder. Is that what's going on? I forgot to plug my phone in last night so I need to give it a little bit of juice before I can take/upload a vid.

I do match the water temps within less than 1 degree difference (use a digital thermometer to be sure), and do also match the pHs.

I don't have a heater in the tank. I have seen the temps fluctuate between 69 in the morning and 73-4 in the late afternoon depending on how warm it is in the house. Should I put a heater in to try to stabilize it?

Helen you had asked some questions in your post yesterday. Here are the answers:

how often do you clean the filter(s)?

I used to clean them monthly, keeping track in a spreadsheet b/c my memory has disappeared. But due to the house move and the illness/passing away of my father-in-law it had been 3 months before I cleaned it this last time. The dropsy appeared about a week after the filter cleaning, but he had been doing some bottom sitting prior to the cleaning.

and when you do clean them, what is the process?

I clean the filter during a routine water change. I pull out the little plastic sling that holds the media sponges and the ceramic rings, and set them all in a bucket of the old tank water. Then, I swish the bag of ceramic rings about in the water, rustling them around to shake them up and release any particles that might be stuck. I do essentially the same with the sponges, swishing and squeezing them for a short time under the water. And finally, I clean off the sling. Then I disassemble the filter intake tube and clean it with a large pipe cleaner, again using the old tank water. Finally, I remove the filter box itself from the tank, empty out the contents into the sink and wipe it down using the old tank water again.

how about the rest of the set up?

When I do a water change, I use my siphon tube to clean what little gravel remains in the tank. Then as the water continues to siphon, I use a paper towel to wipe down the ugly brown algae that always seems to form in the cracks and crevices and on the walls. It had been a particularly heavy build-up this last time because it had been almost 3 weeks since I cleaned the tank. This was when my FIL became quite ill and ultimately passed away, so I had only been doing water changes and not really dealing with the rest of it. Quite a bit of it was floating in the water as I did the water change so I'm sure he was exposed to a bit of gunk. I also remove the ceramic ornament and clean it in the tank water.

when you wc, do you wipe down all internal walls? hollow ornaments?

Yes

do you have driftwood?

Not in the tank, but I do have some. It brought the pH down so low in my test bucket of water (to like 7.2ish if I remember) that I was afraid to put it in the tank lest I cause a pH crash.

I will upload vids as soon as I get enough juice in my phone.

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I have been watching Dave for quite some time now waiting for him to do what he was doing last night...and he just isn't. At most, he might lean ever so slightly to the left when resting. But mostly, what is different, is that he seems to get pulled around the tank by the current rather than just sitting still in one place. I did take a vid of that and uploaded it. You can see it here.

Last night, he was laying completely on his side. But now, other than having the current pull him, he looks pretty good. So maybe it was only a temporary setback...?

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hi beth,

dave looks great :) i wonder, i think he may be a little constipated. antibiotics can do this from time to time, are you able to feed him some peas inbetween medfeeds?

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hi beth,

dave looks great :) i wonder, i think he may be a little constipated. antibiotics can do this from time to time, are you able to feed him some peas inbetween medfeeds?

I think you might be right about the constipation. He must have been because you would not believe the size of the poo that just came out of him! It must be 3 inches long. But it's the color of the food and well formed. I just fed him a couple of the metromed pellets but will give him a pea, too, to keep things moving along. After being away all day again today, things are looking reasonably good tonight :-) Fingers remain crossed.

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