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Tiny bump on side and some bottom sitting behavior


bmblsad

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ok, i am not sure for the maracyns as they aren't available in Australia. i prefer to not comment/guide for use of medicines that i personally do not have experience in using. i will see who can help you with that and if they feel they're ok to use with the information you provided in your last few posts. would you be able to post us new water parameters? this will help us determine which medicine is safest to use at the moment.

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The pH of your system makes using Maracyn very tricky at best, since it's so high (for this particular treatment option). You need Maracyn 2 to be in the neutral or better yet in the acidic range in order for it to work well. At 8.4 pH, there is no telling how well it works. If you want to try a waterborne meds, I would try adding metronidazole to the water.

Also, raising the temp to 78 actually doesn't kill bacteria. It actually speeds up bacterial growth. I think if you want to inhibit bacterial growth, you have to raise it to 86+, something I've never been comfortable with doing.

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Thank you both for hanging in there with me. Here are the latest water parameters. I took these after changing out 10 gallons and adding another 1/4tsp of epsom salts.

Ammonia = 0

Nitrites = 0

Nitrates = 0 They had been between 10+ on May 19 before I started the salting.

KH = 260

GH = 20

pH = 8.3ish

current temp: 68.4

I will call around to see if I can find someone with metronidazole.

Do you think I should have clove oil on hand? I'm not sure where this will go, but most of what I read about dropsy does not sound good unless you start treating it early.

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Beth, of course we will be here. Hang in there!

Try asking a vet for some metro tablets. Some LFS may have it, as well.

Clove oil is always good to have on hand, because in addition to euthanasia, it is also used to anesthetize.

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I tried one vet who referred me to a pet supply place. They have a product called API General Cure that has metro in it along with prazi. The MSDS sheet on the Mars site says it has the following ingredients:

NAME %

sodium chloride >80

metronidazole 1-10

praziquantel 1-5

silica amorphous, fumed, crystalline free 1-5

Do you see an red flags here? If so, I can keep looking for straight metro tabs.

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Is it possible for you to get it and read off the instructions for me? The two big concerns I have are these:

1. salt content. I need to figure out how much is being put in the water, because salt may exacerbate the bloat.

2. metro content is 1%-10%. That is a really huge range :(

Obviously the best is pure metro powder, but I also think it's best to get some metro in them ASAP, so it might be good to get it and then see what Helen thinks.

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I was wondering about that myself. I could not find anything on the API site. Tried Mars tech support but got their VM. I did find the following information on petguys. Saw it confirmed in one other location (yahoo answers, ug). Does the following help?

Active Ingredients:

250 mg Metronidazole and 75 mg Praziquantel per packet.

Directions for use:

For best results, remove activated carbon or filter cartridge from filter and continue aeration. For each 10 gallons (38L) of water, empty one packet directly into aquarium. Repeat dose after 48 hours. Wait another 48 hours then change 25% of the aquarium water and add fresh activated carbon or replace filter cartridge. This package treats up to 100 gallons. Two doses required for full course of treatment.

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I think you will need to dose more than twice. I would go ahead and get it, and wait to see what Helen says. She should be around in a few hours, I think.

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Will do. Thanks Alex! BTW, my gel food turned out nice last night. I used your pinned post as my recipe. Sure hope Dave gets a chance to try it, but things do seem a bit bleak at the moment.

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I think you will need to dose more than twice. I would go ahead and get it, and wait to see what Helen says. She should be around in a few hours, I think.

As you know Im not good with Meds. But what about Baytril would this work. I know it helps with Dropy's

Just thinking here :)

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Baytril would definitely be worth trying, but the issue would be convincing a vet to inject it for you, or dispense it to you to inject. It's one of those antibiotics that should never be used in waterborne formulations, to protect everyone involved.

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I think you will need to dose more than twice. I would go ahead and get it, and wait to see what Helen says. She should be around in a few hours, I think.

As you know Im not good with Meds. But what about Baytril would this work. I know it helps with Dropy's

Just thinking here :)

koko, i would be happy to advise the baytril if we had a successful story, ie, a survivor. i know it's a good antibiotic straight to the problem, but both cases injected with baytril by members here at kokos died.

i like this general cure, how is it administered? and also, the dose of Metronidazole i use when i add it to the water is 400mg for every 10US gallons.

hun, have you tried to syringe feed?

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Well -I just returned from the LFS. I did pick up the API General Cure, but also picked up Metro+ from Aquarium Solutions. Technically - it's Aquascience Research Group and distributed by Hikari.

The Metro+ ingredients are listed as metronidazole (2-methyl-5-nitroimidazole-1-ethanol) (active ingredient); sodium cloride, synthetic polymers and a chelating agent. I could not find anything about the concentration on the Hikari site, but I did find the following post in a Discus forum from someone who called Hikari for the info. Here's what he posted:

"One capful (9.7g) of Metro+ will give a 5 mg/liter concentration of the active ingredient [metronidazole]." This per the Hikari technical guy I talked to.

What this translates into is a capful, per my reckoning, is about 1 1/2 teaspoons, which is also 1/10 of the total volume of the container (97grams total weight.) 10 gallons of water is about 38 liters, which would give a concentration of about 190 mg. per 10 gallons of water. At this level the ENTIRE container only treats 100 gallons of water.

I don't know if he did his math right, but there it is.

The directions are: As a bath treatment for external metronidazole-susceptible, microbial diseases of marine and freshwater aquarium and pond fishes (e.g. hole-in-the-head and lateral line), use 1 capful (~9.7g) per 10 gallons of water. A partial or complete water change should be made just prior to beginning treatment and every 24 hours thereafter, followed by re-treatment. Repeat the treatment every 24 hours for 5 to 7 days or until mortalities cease or healing of leasions occurs. If improvement is not noted within three (3) days, discontinue treatment and consider other therapy.

The General Cure has 250mg of metro and 75mg of prazi per packet. The instructions say to add one packet per 10 gallons to tank, repeat in 48 hours, then do a 25% water change after another 48 hours and add activated carbon.

So they both have metro, but the General Cure also has prazi. I honestly don't know what to do at this point. Any insight would be appreciated.

I have not tried to syringe feed but am willing to give it a go if you can explain how. I have a little 1cc and a 3cc syringe.

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i would do the general cure first. .parasitic treatment is 3 days on 4 days off. for the inbetween days, i would continue feeding metronidizole,at least then, we understand that there is no interruption with the antibiotic. and with this routine we understand that if this is the result of parasitic infestation, we're attempting to kill 2 birds with one stone.

here is how to prepare syringe food,:

here is how to syringe feed:

sorry for the videos, i find it hard to step through instructions by writing.

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i will make an instructional video on how to syringe feed without the extra babble.. (sorry) the talk in the video was an audio update on the fish being treated. who unfortunately as i suspected, died the following day.

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Thanks so much! I will start with General Cure, and give the hand feeding a go. Thanks so much for taking time to post the videos. They are excellent!

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Shoot...one more question. Helen - in your video you show feeding peas mixed with epsom salts. But I'm assuming what I will be doing is taking the Metromeds, crushing them up and trying to feed that to him via syringe - so I would be treating him externally via a water bath as well as internally via food. Is that a correct?

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hun, i have my fingers crossed that something will begin to work soon. how's he doing? is he active?

He is not active at all. A few times per day he may scoot over to the other side of the tank, but more or less spends all of it with his head buried in the corner. It really looks bleak I'm afraid. But I will keep trying until he gives the signal that he wants me to stop.

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ok.. the mixture i used was for my fish.. i am basically showing you how runny the food needs to be for it to come out as feed from the syringe. you can put any food you like or need to in there, ie, you do not need to add epsom to his feed. so just use it as a guide. it's how to stuff the syring with food and how much water to draw. remember to shake the syringe so that the food mixes with the water well and becomes as consitent as possible.

i hope he perks up soon..

just a note, when you pick him up to feed, just make sure that you're not covering his gill plates. and this may take a few attempts, if he resists, let him go and then try again 10 mins later. you can try in the tank or remove him to a tub. initially, just hold him in your hand and see how he reacts.. then cup your hand around him if he lets you.. everything at a slow pace. to pry his mouth open, run the syringe nozzle from the bottom of the mouth to the top, at the top of the mouth, there is a lip, the nozzle will gently get caught there, if successful, he will open his mouth and that's when you squirt the syringe. now, don't be shocked, at first, when you press, a lot will come out until your had gets used to the pressure.. lol.. you cannot choke him, he will expell whatever he does not want to eat either through his mouth or through his gills.

good luck hun :heart

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I am working on getting him used to my hand touching him but he's not real keen on it, and it appears to stress him a bit as well. So I'm moving pretty gingerly.

Here is a pic I took just a few minutes ago. You can see the pineconing is pretty bad. I don't think there's been any change since adding the General Cure last night, but then I don't suppose it would make and impact that quickly. I was just hoping for a miracle.

post-19555-0-33402400-1337779441_thumb.j

I just feel so bad for not recognizing sooner what was going on :-( I fear I reacted too late.

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ok.. poor darling..

lets see if we can do this. crush the metronidazole with the spoon like i showed you but not so fine.. like white sugar granules. aim for 400mg per 10US gallons.

add it to the water. you will find, it will float, just grab a teaspoon and gently stir the surface of the water, it will sink to the bottom. it will be fine enough for him to consume it via normal breathing,

do we have the epsom in the water? which day epsom are we on at the moment? (i am sorry to have to ask, but the timezones throw me out every now and again)

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We are on day 3 of the epsom salts. If I recall correctly, I am to let him remain in the epsom bath through today and then do a water change. Is that correct?

I do not have straight metro tabs, but do have the metro+ granules from Hikari. Unfortunately, they also include sodium chloride as an ingredient. Should I use those? According to Hikari one capful (9.7g) of the granules will give a 5mg/liter concentration of metro. So if I want to administer 400mg, I think I'd do about 2 capfuls. BTW, the granules are about the size of white sugar granules, quite small. I can crush them more if needed. Or I can keep calling around today to see if I can find pure metro tabs with no other additives/agents.

BTW - the General Cure I added last night puts the concentration of metro at about 250mg.

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hun, you can be doing daily wc's (i normally do for a dropsy fish) and just keep replacing the meds as required. let me get help with the meds.. again, these are products we don't use here. brb..

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Beth, according to the calculations, the metro+ powder contains 2% metro. So, for every 10 grams of the Metro+, there are 200 mg of metronidazole.

I understand that you already have 250 mg metro in the water from yesterday. How big of a WC are you planning to do, and what are you planning to add back? I can help with the numbers :)

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