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Orandas bottom sitting in new tank


Mark_C

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Hi all,

My partner has 2 lionhead orandas, she has had these for about 6 months, they were in a 35 litre tank and did very well on 50% water changes and a very good gravel vac each week, they were always very active and entertaining.

All water Params in the small tank remained healthy, but they were getting bigger.

So as we had a spare 70 litre tank we decided to move them.

We set the tank up using water from the small tank, and also from my 200 litre that was removed during weekly wc

We added small amounts of food to try and do a fish less cycle, and after 2 weeks all seemed good, ammonia at 0ppm

Nitrites 0ppm

Nitrates at around 60 ppm

We did a 50% wc and the nitrates came down to 20ppm next day

So we moved the fish

However the water is a little colder in the new tank ( maybe because it has a glass top instead of a hood?)

Temperature in the old tank is around 69f

Temperature in the new tank is around 64f

Both tanks fluctuate by around 3 degrees each day/night

Since the guys have been in the new tank however, they spend a lot of time bottom sitting, they do get up and swim around for a while, but they are nowhere near as energetic as in the previous tank

We have monitored the water Params each day, and noticed small increases in ammonia and nitrites, which we countered with 50% wc both times (I assume the increased load will create the small spikes in the cycle?)

When the levels go up it does not get above .25ppm for both ammonia and nitrite, and the water change brings both back down.

Is it possible that they are sitting more because of the lower temperature? This is the coldest they have been since we got them

Or are they unsettled in their new environment?

We are worried that they are stressed or will get sick, and cannot see any reason for this

Test Results for the Following:

* Ammonia Level. 0 to 0.25 ppm

* Nitrite Level. 0 to 0.25ppm

* Nitrate level 20ppm

* Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)

* Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)

Other Required Info:

* Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API drops

* Water temperature? 64f approx

* Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 70 litre 2 weeks, cycled with water from established tanks

* What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? Aqua one clear view

* How often do you change the water and how much? 50% daily at the moment, weekly once cycle perfect

* How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? Today 50%

* How many fish in the tank and their size? 2 2 inch without tail measurement

* What kind of water additives or conditioners? Prime

* What do you feed your fish and how often? Varied flake, granules and blood worms,

* Any new fish added to the tank? No

* Any medications added to the tank? No

* List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. None

* Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? No

* Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? Yes bottom sitting, not as active in new tank, but not totally lethargic, and seem normal when swimming and playing

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Sorry your having troubles. Hope things clear up soon. Did you move the filter with the fish, or any of the filter media from the old filter to establish the BB colony in the new tank?

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Hi

No I did not move the filter or media, but the cycle seemed to work, from following the test results.

Just did another test, ammonia is back up to .25 (maybe slightly higher)

Will do another wc now and check again in the morning

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You might try upping your WC to 80% to keep ammonia and nitrites down lower. If you are getting readings on those, then I'm not sure that you have stablishe an adequate colony of bacteria yet. There is very little benificial bacteria living in the tank water its self. If you have media, plants, gravel ect. you can move from another tank to help establish the colony, I think it would be helpful. :) Just my thoughts. Hopefully someone else will come along and offer some more input. Shawnee had a good point about the temp being low as well. My heater went out and my fish were lethargic and began to bottom sit a bit. Good luck.

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You also can use Prime to neutralize ammonia and help build your cycle. As Mr.B stated, you don't have enough good bacteria yet and perhaps you are overfeeding. If your temperature is low and your fish are lethargic, they might not be eating at the same level they were, which would lead to a build up of ammonia.

Edited by ShawneeRiver
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I concur with the previous assessments and recommendations :)

You definitely should increase the volume of water changes to 80% weekly, regardless of ammonia or nitrite levels and increase the tank temp to at least 70. At low 60s, it is not surprising that they are a lot less active.

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I put a heater in there but the thermostat did not seem to be working, I had to set it very high to make it come on.

It is a new heater so I will take it back to Lfs tomorrow for exchange.

I have added some ceramic noodles from my 200 litre tank that my comets and shubunkin live in, there is not a huge amount of room in the hang on filter, but I got a good handful in, so hopefully that will help, also changed another 50%. And will test again in the morning

There are some ornaments from the other tank in there, and also I have one of those air powered sponge bio filters installed

I will take some gravel from the 35 litre and add that tomorrow too, but I don't want to empty it, as I now have 2 baby Oranda in there, and I was going to add my baby comet as he is getting too big for his breeder net, but still small enough to fit in his mums mouth

They both got fairly active while I was changing water, but now one of them is back in his favorite bottom sitting spot

I think it is temperature related, but like to be safe, so will keep on with the water changes every time I see an increase in ammonia or nitrites

Do you think it will be safe to finish cycling the tank with them in there? Is it worth adding any products to help?

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Actually, you should do WCs on a regularly basis, BEFORE you can detect any toxic nitrogen products. Otherwise, you will be just patching up damage, and they will continue to be affected.

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I use Prime at the stated dose for the full tank on each of the water changes, should iincrease the dose?

Also fasting them for a couple of days because of the temperature change, and to decrease watse while the tank is a little unstable, so they have not been fed for around 27 hours at the moment

Thanks for the help everyone, this site is the best place on the web for Goldfish advice :)

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I have changed water twice today, I do always change regularly on established tanks anyway, but this one is getting much more as it was obviously not as well cycled as I thought

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I totally understand. :)

Now that you know how long it takes before you can detect these products, just time your WCs to precede that, and more :)

Good luck! The people on this awesome forum are always happy to be helpful!

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Do you know your PH reading from your tap and in your tank ? Your local fish store should be able to test it for you if you don't have drops. At 64 degrees F the Beneficial Bacteria that process ammonia will struggle to multiply and the growth rate declines to 50%. 77 degrees F is the lower end of the optimum temperature for BB's :)

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hi Mark,

great advice here re the water params. the ceramic rings should help.

transporting fish, even from one tank to the other can cause a little stress and they may just need some time to adjust to the different volume and environment also. as well as this, they're receiving daily water changes, this is all a different routine for them.

they should get used to all this soon and by then, your filter should have cycled also. adding the extra prime will help for the toxic water as you suggested but it doesn't beat larger water changes as advised by others.

good luck, i am sure things will settle soon with your wonderful care :)

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Hi Helen

Thanks for the help everyone.

Both fish were a lot more active today, but still bottom sitting a fair bit.

I have exchanged the heater and set it up, it seems to be working ok

I did a 80% water change tonight, and tested water before the change, the was under .25ppm ammonia, so I think the noodles are doing there job.

I was not happy with the waterfall filter, so also added a 250-500 LPG internal filter, it has a fairly large noodle container, large sponge and carbon, I added some more of the noodles from my 200 litre (put new ones back in that tank)

The waterfall filter is still running too

With the xtra current they are much more active, they have been able to stop though, so i don't think the current is too strong.

They have had a small feeds, and are happily begging and foraging in the gravel now

This style of filter is much more like the one they are used to, I wonder whether that is the big difference

Anyway, will keep you updated

I am hoping to move my baby comet this weekend, I will put him in the 35 litre with the 2 tiny Orandas we have, until he grows a bit, then he can go back in with mum and my new Shubunkin. Fingers crossed, this will be a smoother move

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Quick update.

Since I added the other filter, both Oranda's have been back to their normal energetic selves. :)

I have increased the temperature to 70 degrees too, and I am sure this is keeping them happier.

Ammonia and nitrite levels are starting to stabilize now, but still doing very regular large wc until tank is fully cycled.

Thanks for the help everyone.

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