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Everything posted by sandtiger

  1. Was it sold as a tank made for reptiles specifically? Many reptile tanks do have thinner glass and cannot hold a full load of water.
  2. Awsome pictures! You should enter it into a contest, or use it in an anti-bowl advert.
  3. Who suggested a pair of gouramis? I think one would do fine. I also think the guppys would work fine but all well, to eatch their own.
  4. I take that into consideration fully. I just don't agree in telling people what they want to hear rather than what they need to hear. I keep hearing this "10 or 20g is better than a bowl". Yes, it is but it's not good enough for a fish that grows longer than the length of the tank! That's like saying....yeah, I beat my dog but not as much as the guy next door so it's alright. Cruely is cruely, some worse than others but that does not justfy the others. And as for cruelty...I never called anyone here cruel. Some are misinformed...even yourself if you believe a captive fish cannot grow as large as a wild fish. I am trying to inform and educate people. Maybe someone will see this and say "Hey, maybe a common goldfish isen't for me" and get something smaller. There are over 25,000 species of fish, many that can fit in smaller tanks. Like ranchugirl said, you would not get a great dane if you lived in an apartment, why do it with fish? P.S. Keeping a fish in ANY body of water that it can outgrow IS cruel. I don't except excuses, when you take ANY animal into your care you are responsable for it. It cannot make the changes needed to improve it's life. Only you can, if you cannot properly care for something you should find someone who can and get rid of it. I also think everyone should research whatever animal they want BEFORE they get it, sadly not everyone does and the animal suffers. There are many fish I would love to have but do not because I cannot give them what they need.
  5. Maybe as a beginning it works but there are a couple problems with that. One would be cost, two tanks cost more...why not just get the large one in the first place. Also, you cannot predict the future, the fish might grow but you might not be able to get that larger tank, even if you said you would previously. And as I pointed out many times before, with detailed explanations as to why...where they are from does not matter.
  6. Even if this secretion does exist (and until I reas scientific proof I will still doubt it) it would still need time to build up in the system and that would allow nitrates to climb and waste to build up. The only kind of stunting I know of is the kind caused by poor water quality and not the size or the tank. Fish stunt in smaller tanks because the water quality gets lower. This caused deformations, internal problems and other similer results. that would harm or kill the fish. I have seen stunted fish, it's not pretty. So if a common goldfish that is supposed to grow very large, over 20" in some cases but at least 12" is kept in a 20g it will outgrow the tank or suffer from the poor water quality and stunt. Your link though was interesting and I will do the research that's for sure. As for the rest of your post...EXCELLENT, I loved what you had to say!!!
  7. How about fantails, they are typically cheap and common. They look a lot like orandas but without the wen. You could also try pearscales, personally not my favorite but some people like them. Pom poms are also interesting but i don't see these (or pearlsales) often in my area. As for numbers, 3 would do fine. That way is you slack off a bit on water changes it won't be as vital as it would be if you had 5.
  8. They could be eating eatchother's eyes. Crowded or hungry fish will often do this. There could also be something else living in the pond that's doing it such as some kind of aquatic insect. As for it all being the left eyes, that's very odd.
  9. I am going to assume that your algae eaters are plecostomus. All of them do lay eggs, and the males of most species will guard them. Unless your plecos are bushynoses though chances are you don't have eggs or fry. Most pleco species are very difficult to breed in captivity. Many such as the common pleco dig pits in the mud on river banks, something that cannot be done in a tank. Bushynoses, and a few other will spawn in caves though. PVC pipe, flowerpots or a sunken plastic ship will all work for this but again, unless it's a bushynose you won't have any eggs.
  10. I think what we are doing is setting people up for disapointment and a premature death for their fish. I can picture it now. A young person who perhaps live with their parents, in college or does not make much money wants a goldfish. Like they should they do research, they want to keep a happy and healthy fish. They come here for advice. They are told a 20g...or even a 29g is the bare minimum for a common goldfish. It's the bare minimum yes but can still hold the fish. So they get their 20g tank, set it up, cycle it....do everything right and than go out and buy their fish. They feed the fish a nice healthy diet. The best pellets and flakes, frozen treats, fresh veggies...the fish has an excellent diet. The person also buys a test kit, they want to make sure their water is in tip top shape for their fish. They check the water every week and as needed change the water. All is well. Skip some time later, the fish owner has done an excellent job raising the common goldfish, it's gotten large due to the excellent care. Naturally with this size has come more water changes. What were once weekly 25% water changes are now two 50% water changes a week. The fish continues to grow, reaches an awsome size of 8". Mind you a 20g tall (knowone on the site said a long tank might be better) is only 24" long. The fish can only swim it's own body length three times, the tank is also 12" wide so the fish is almost as long as the tank is wide. Eventually the person cannot handle the tank anymore, the water changes have become too much and life as proved to have gotten to busy to keep up with it. The owner is forced to A) Buy another tank B) Get rid of the fish or C) Take more time out for it. Cannot buy another tank, cannot afford it (a budget remember, the same budget that stopped them from buying a larger tank in the first place). The person gets a full time job, great...save up some money. Sadly, water changes slip, only one a week now. The nitrates climb beyond the point that the tank can handle them and ammonia and nitrites show up within a week. The fish gets a case of ich, fin rot, dropsy or some other disease. The owner ends up loosing the fish. The goldfish had a potensial lifespan of several decades but rather died a miserable death in a tiny tank within only a few years, despite the best intentions of the owner doing they best they could with what they had.
  11. Well yeah, a 20g does sound a bit large and it is pretty large for a fat waddling goldfish. It's not just a matter of space for the fish though, it's also a matter of bio-load. The more (or larger) fish you have the more waste they produce and the more you will have to clean the tank. They will be more likely to get a disease as well. I have two oscars in a 75g, both around 9" and in my eyes, they look like they have enough room but when the nitrates climb above 20 ppm within a week and I have to do two large scale water changes within that week than I know it's not all about size. For what it's worth, common goldfish can easily grow 9", produce as much waste as any oscar and in the end can actually grow larger. There is no reason to think that even someone on a teenage budget cannot keep a goldfish. For the record, I am 22 years old and work part time on as a farm hand, I have only been living on my own for two years. I am not rich, far from it. A teenager who wants a goldfish can easily get a 20g for a fancy, but keep it at that. If you keep it simple and don't go beyond what you can handle than you will be rewarded with a goldfish that's not only surviving but thriving and will continue to for many years.
  12. Sadly there is no such secretion, even if there was you could take it out with the water changes.
  13. It's not about what I think is good enough. It's about simple facts, an 8" common goldfish is a small common goldfish and not even a fish of that size can really be kept in a 20g tank. It's easy to say that goldfish in captivity won't get as large as the ones in the pictures I posted but how long has anyone kept a common in a tank? Does anyone really know how large they can get? A 10g is better than a bowl but that does not justify it. Just because something is slightly better does not make it right. I like your DIY ideas and am glad you mention it. It's proof that for a cheap price (cheaper than a new 20g) you can provide something like a common with the size tank it needs. It does not have to be a money issue. I'm not saying I'm perfect, or that I'm an expert. I mentioned my history with fish for a reason, so that maybe people would trust me on this. I know about fish growth, tank sizes, stunting and all the varous details and am trying to share my knowledge because like everyone else I care about fish. How does anyone know they are doing something wrong unless someone tells them? The most harsh post I have read so far was this one. I was not harsh, I did not pick out any individual, I have supported my side of the debate and defended it with facts. I have no idea how I can tone it down because if anything I am having a bit of a hard time not bringing up the tone.
  14. The "brine shrimp" might be daphnia, scuds or fairy shrimp but they are not brine shrimp, those are saltwater. All three of the above inverts are harmless and your fish will eat them. They could also be stonefly or mayfly larvae or some other insect larvae. Daphnia Scud Fairy Shrimp
  15. Five gallons are hard to work with. You could put guppys in it, I would say 3-4 but they would all have to be the same sex or they would reproduce (though they would likely eat any fry). I think a dwarf gourami is what you should go with. They are small, around betta-size and function in much the same way bettas do.
  16. Give them time, other people's fish will grow...provided they A) Survive long enough and B) Live in heathy conditions. I have personally seen how large a common goldfish can grow over the course of a few years in the right sized tank.
  17. If the people won't listen than there is nothing we can do about it but we can still provide the information. I myself will continue to suggest what I feel is right, so if you see me in a thread telling people they should have something larger than a 20g tank for a foot long fish than you will at least understand why. I don't see how this thread is going in a bad direction. So far everyone has been acting fine. There hasen't been any name calling, insults or anything of that nature. If you can point out specifics than please do.
  18. Yep. AND, their age also follow their tank size. The smaller the tank, the quicker they go kaput. Here's my thoughts on this matter: 40-50g per single-tailed and 20g per fancy is ideal, but the society is not ready for that yet. To most people, goldfish is still regarded as cheapo pets and I'm afraid that attitude will change later rather than sooner. Goldfish status (and general knowledge) is currently better than 50 years ago, and people are *very* gradually taught that goldfish is a high-maintenance pet, but once again, they're not ready yet for 40-50 gal for one single 20 cents comet. 10g per fancy and 20g per single-tailed is a good compromise for now. Who knows, maybe a few years from now, if KGW is still around, we'll get to the stage where it's fit to change the 10g/20g rule to 20g/50g, and when that time comes, us goldfish enthusiasts should party like there's no tomorrow I don't think that's good enough. Why should the fish suffer because "people are not ready"? Promote the larger tank size, if the members don't like it than that's too bad, if that's what the fish need and they cannot provide it they need to find a new species of fish. In is common knowledge among aquarists "in-the-know" that larger tanks are actually more easy to maintain. They also aren't that much more money. A 29g kit averages around $100. A 55g kit around $150.
  19. Yes, I don't want this thread to turn into an arguement. I am only trying to express my views on what I feel is an important subject. Golem: I just don't feel that those are good BARE MINIMUMS for such large fish. IMO a bare minimum sould allow a fish to grow to it's full size, anything less will stunt or cram the fish. Yes, it's better than nothing but as a site I feel we should promote the best possable way to keep fish, we all care about these fish and whether people like it or not the bare minimums need to be changed. To all the others who mentioned the fish in the pictures and how large fish can grow, I have to protest. It makes no sense that in a healthy tank with a healthy diet a fish's growth would slow down. Look at it this way...in the wild a fish has to find it's food and exhaust more energy. In captivity they are hand fed pellets often more than once a day. In the wild they only live so long, a predator or some other environmental factor will kill them probably long before they reach full size. Fish, unlike us do not stop growing. Older fish are larger than younger fish. In captivity fish live a lot longer. In the wild fish have to survive through a winter period (if they live in that kind of place). This slows metabolism and growth, fish are cold blooded. In captivity they live in year round constant temps. Typically warm temps in the 70's. Lastly, in the wild fish have to deal with pollution and other foul water habitats. In captivity, if you do it right fish should live in very clean water that's changed often. Fish cannot sense the size of their tank and only grow so large according to it, they cannot change what genetics have determined. The only was a fish will stop growing is if it is kept in a stressfull unhealthy environment. Please people, I am not trying to start trouble. I have been around this site long enough that I think people know that I know quite a bit about fish, both in and out of the aquarium and how they function. I keep over 22 species of fish of all sizes, I have over 50 individual fishes. I studied fish in college and have had an interest in them for most of my life. I'm not bragging here, mearly saying that I know what I am talking about.
  20. Fish do not grow to the size of their tank, if this was the case than why can't we keep fish in bowls? A captive goldfish can grow just as large as a wild goldfish. If you provide them with a healthy environment and diet there is no reason to think they would not grow just as large. After all, other fish grow large in aquaria, sometimes larger than they would in the wild simply because in captivity they are exposed to warmer water (faster metabolism) and live longer.
  21. Alright, I notice that on this and various other goldfish sites there is a rule that exists for common goldfish and it states that a 20g should be the minimum tank size for said fish. I don't get it though, most of us fishkeepers with experiance know that a common goldfish will outgrow a 20g tank, they can grow over a foot long, How is keeping such a large fish in a small tank justifiable? You wouldn't suggest putting an oscar in a 20g and they don't even grow as large as commons. We would not suggest putting a koi in anything less than a multi-hundred gallon pond so why the 20g rule for a fish that grows so darn large? For those who don't know here is some photographic evidence. These are NOT koi, they are common (or comet) goldfish. These fish are large, fast and messy. A 20g is no place for them and I think a revision is needed in the tank size rule. Personally, I think a 75g at least is needed for a common with a multi hundred gallon tank being much better. For comets I think somewhere between 40-55g would be best. And while we are on the subject, a 10g tank is no good for the fancys, we have all seen those baseball or softball sized individuals and I cannot imagin keeping them in such a cramped space. Maybe 20g per fancy with 10g for every fancy added afterwards?
  22. That would be the lateral line, a fluid filled canal underneath the skin. All goldfish have this, so do many other fish. It is used for distance preception, measuring water flow and senseing vibrations. As for vision, goldfish can see in color, includeing ultraviolet. They can see things as far as 15 feet away.
  23. Omega One, I use Hikari as well but Omega One is a much better product IMO.
  24. Was it fresh or saltwater and where did you find it?
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