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jetman73

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Posts posted by jetman73


  1. Alex did a lot of research to come up with that protocol.  I know he used this resource.  I would have to do more research than I care to do to figure out all his sources. The protocol appears to be very successful, even if it might be overkill. 

     

    I have only used the instructions on the prazi containers which typically say 2 treatments of one week each.  I do not do prophylactic treatments, and have not encouraged others to do so,  however I do a week of prazi whenever I combine fish from different ponds.  We all have parasites, but if healthy and with a strong immune system, we keep them under control.    Fish who share the same tank/pond for a long time also share the same strain of flukes and all have immunity to that strain.  However they do not necessarily have immunity to the fluke strain carried another tank/pond of healthy fish.

     

    I have never seen research that indicated any treatment kills 100% of flukes, and have seen research that have said prazi does not.  Unless one scrapes every mm of the fish, and did so perfectly, one doesn't know that there no flukes left.  To paraphrase a line from an old children's book, "Not seeing flukes is not the same as seeing no flukes."

     

    Yes, flukes, and other parasites and pathogens do appear to be harder to treat than in the past. 

    I finally had the chance too read that entire link and I don't agree with most of the conclusions regarding treatment. Why they even mention formalin and potassium permanganate as options for treatment befuddle me.

    Formalin was never a treatment of choice for flukes and PP at 2ppm will do absolutely nothing for flukes.

     

    Edit: Sorry, I was trying too quote the link to that article. 


  2. That was an interesting read but it follows the tried and true methods of using prazi. Even in that document the most they recommend treatment for is 3 doses. I also don't understand the addition of salt at .3%. That is just another irritant for the fish and flukes laugh at salt as do most of todays parasites. 

     

    I believe that you can get 100% eradication of flukes in an indoor tank environment if it is treated as a closed system and it don't take years, just weeks. In the outdoor pond I agree with you 100% that you have a chance that small numbers of flukes will be around.

     

    Regarding microscope scrapes, you are correct that you can't scrape the entire fish, but if you scrape the 4 right areas you will know if you have flukes. At least that has been my experience and flukes are easy to identify even with a basic microscope. 

     

    I started the thread because it seems like treating for flukes is all the rage now. If I was a betting man I'd wager that over 90% of the people who treat for flukes just because, don't have them and are treating their fish for no good reason. It would be better if one invests in a scope, learns how to use it, and saves some money on the dose of prazi.


  3.  

    Just noticed you are in Tampa. Have you ever been to the place down on Hillsborough Ave, the name escapes me but its blue and looks like a fish store? Maybe a few miles east of the Vets on the north side. It's not the greatest for goldfish but they bring in some nice fish and are very knowledgeable. I ended up selling all of my malawi mbuna and synodontis cats to them when I finally closed down my last tank.

    You must mean Marine Warehouse, I went there once when I lived in Tampa a few years ago with a buddy of mine before I got back into goldfish. I have sense moved over the bridge to St Petersburg... Next time I'm over in Tampa I'll check them out again. It was a huge store with a lot of fish.

     

    That's it. Not a great place for goldfish but a LFS that brought in some nice fish. God luck in St. Pete, I lived in NPR for 17 of the last 18 years and that was easily the best LFS in the Tampa area. I would kill for a store like that where I now reside. 


  4.  

    You have a veggie filter for your pond, so I expect you know how they work.  Just make one for your tank.  I can help if you need help and tell you more things I would change from that old post.  If you don't want a veggie filter by your tank you can set one up elsewhere.  

     

    The level of trihalomethanes should be on your water company report.  There are filters that can remove them or you could just put some activated carbon in your filter.  Have you contacted the water company about this?  

     

    Rob, can you provide a link to a relationship between nitrate levels and trihalomethanes?  I've never heard of that, only that THMs come from  chlorinating organics.

     

    Yeah.  An algae scrubber is essentially like a veggie filter but with algae.  I have an old reef tank with over flow so I can stick it unobtrusively in there.  I would do an aquarium veggie filter but really don't want to deal with the plants in that fashion, plus I really don't have a lot of natural light where the tank is and don't want to have to deal with additional lighting for the plants like that.

     

    My water report says that all levels were within range for last year with Nitrates reported out at about 6ppm.  I assume this is total nitrate-nitrogen (you multiply this number by 4.43 to get total nitrates).  I will find out about that though.  TTHMs were reported out at 31 (max = 80) and HAA5 at 19 (max = 60).  Chlorine range 1.2-3.5 ppm with minimum residual disinfectant 0.2.  I think we have a carbon filter after our water softener.  Will have to get husband to monitor that more closely.

     

    What that report states is very well within acceptable limits including the chlorine dosage and the minimum residual, although .2 is cutting it close....but it all depends. What the water company reports....and what you get from the tap can be quite different. The report from the water authority should be used as a tool, not an end all test. I believe your 40ppm nitrate from your test kit is more reliable than what the water authority states.

    Give them a call and ask them to test from your tap. They might not be happy, but IIRC by law they have to do it. 40+ppm of Nitrates is unacceptable a least IMO.


  5. Just  noticed you are in Tampa. Have you ever been to the place down on Hillsborough Ave, the name escapes me but its blue and looks like a fish store? Maybe a few miles east of the Vets on the north side. It's not the greatest for goldfish but they bring in some nice fish and are very knowledgeable.  I ended up selling all of my malawi mbuna and synodontis cats to them when I finally closed down my last tank.


  6. I've finally had a chance to peruse the board after many years and notice a huge change in not only Fluke treatment, but also how the drug of choice praziquantel is implemented.

    The recommendations that I am now noticing sounds quite harsh and with a duration that was not necessary only 5-10 years ago. It has been around 5-6 years since I've kept any type of fish and am wondering if there is some super strain out there causing people to dose prazi for 5,6, and even 7 rounds.

    Considering most people have aquariums here and temps can be regulated to speed up their life cycle, I don't understand why more than two doses would not be sufficient in the long-term. The old treatment regime was dose.....keep in water 7 days at higher temps.......huge water change......dose again.....and leave in the tank for 7 more days. I have NEVER seen that method fail based upon microscopic scrapes and 100's of success stories.

    I also see recommendations for preventative fluke control.....I.E. Dose the tank because it's been awhile, and I can't wrap my head around that one. Flukes are eradicated 100% with proper treatment, why would one need to do a maintenance dose unless they didn't QT new fish? For ponders I understand it can be a different story....but indoor fish tanks that are well maintained?

    I'm not trying too start a ruckus....just looking for answers as to why todays protocol is so different and general discussion on how the routine treatment of flukes with the same medication has changed so much, over a short period of time.

      


  7. You have a veggie filter for your pond, so I expect you know how they work.  Just make one for your tank.  I can help if you need help and tell you more things I would change from that old post.  If you don't want a veggie filter by your tank you can set one up elsewhere.  

     

    The level of trihalomethanes should be on your water company report.  There are filters that can remove them or you could just put some activated carbon in your filter.  Have you contacted the water company about this?  

     

    Rob, can you provide a link to a relationship between nitrate levels and trihalomethanes?  I've never heard of that, only that THMs come from  chlorinating organics.

    I don't have any links, only an assumption on my part. With nitrate levels that high I would consider that dirty water and am just guessing that they needed to use more chlorine to disinfect it. More chlorine=more THMs 


  8. 40ppm is not a safe level and does not conform to the SDWA act. By law, they are not allowed too send that to your tap but most law infractions are overlooked and mired down in the bureaucratic process.

    Sounds like something that is happening in Flint, MI but is probably prevalant at the delivery point across the entire US, instead of where they generate the samples before it enters the distribution system.


  9. Your post piqued my interest so I researched it further. According to the SDWA (Safe Drinking Water Act) they list a high level of 10ppm for Nitrate. If I was in your shoes I would make some politicians do their job as 40 ppm is completely unacceptable, not only for your fish but your family.


  10. 40+ ppm for Nitrates is something I wouldn't consider safe for drinking or cooking. At a level that high you will more than likely have high levels of THM's which is a byproduct of using chlorine as a disinfectant and is carcinogenic.

     

    I would try and locate a local company that is familiar with your water source and how too treat it before it comes out of the tap. 


  11.  

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HJGTLVW?keywords=intex%20pool&qid=1454286427&ref_=sr_1_2&refinements=p_n_feature_keywords_two_browse-bin%3A6024915011&s=lawn-garden&sr=1-2

     

    I've seen people recommending this pool as a goldfish tub. Im thinking of trying it out this outdoor this coming spring/summer/fall but have a few questions: 

     

    what type of heater can be used? 

     

    None

     

    what type of filter can be used?

     

    Build a filter. It's easy, inexpensive, and superior to any reasonably priced commercial filter.

     

    I've seen foam filters being used but how often is water change? 

     

    I change water continuously.  Most people change once a week.  

     

    Do you cover it at night? I have squirrels, etc in my backyard

     

    Unless you are there, you cover it all the time.

     

    I'm just curious if anyone has tried this/something similar and can share some experience. Thanks in advance.

     

    I have one that I don't have fish in yet.  First, I had to create a level base for it to sit on.  Then I had to build a box around it to protect the sides and to support the cover.  I have no carpentry skills and everything I did wrong led to a redo or a "patch" so it stil isn't finished.  Once I get the frame done, the cover should be easy.  I've made lots of covers (to the dismay of the raccoons and the herons).

     

    Why not go with a tried and true epdm liner? If you've already put that much work and effort into it,  a liner would probably be cheaper and last at least a decade +.


  12. It happens :). I'm still doing some research but there is a notion that ph specifically isn't an issue for most fish so much as hardness and accompanying osmotic shock. pH varying by several full points (like from 6.0 to 9.0) has not been shown to detrimental in some experiments with fish like trout provided the hardness stays the same. But a small pH difference with a big change in overall hardness (like 7.0 to 7.4, with soft water to moderately hard) can cause major changes in the condition and vigor of the fish as they adjust and seems to contribute to bottom sitting, clamping, blanched color, etc.

    This is tentative and I'm considering experimenting on my own tanks to try and verify this particular research, but properly buffered water makes a huge difference. Especially when you consider the toxicity curves for things like iron and ammonia it is pH dependent, yes, but the hardness of the water and available cations seem to matter more.

    Sorry for the divergence of thought! All that to say that slowly increasing your hardness with baking soda should help and provided your water isn't both acidic AND soft I doubt much damage has been done. If it is soft and you're changing your hardness by more than a few degrees please do it veeery gradually to help your fish acclimate, and avoid big water changes as that difference will cause stress to your fish's system far more than what the pH is reading, if what I've been studying is to be believed.

    That is quite an interesting study that you are following. Definitely not something I would try and replicate but I'm always interested in the science behind it.

     

    Do you have any links to this? I could easily see a fish going from 6.0- 9.0 and surviving......go the other way and that better be a very hardy fish. Now try that everyday....not good.


  13. You'll be more than fine with source water like that. If you notice the new Ph readings, they are barely apart which would be of no cause for concern even if you went larger than 50%. Personally, I don't like water changes much larger than 50% anyway, and are only rarely needed if you keep sensible stocking levels.   

     

    Just monitor your Nitrates and adjust your WC schedule from there and keep things simple. As you might have noticed in the previous posts but Sharon and myself rarely ever check our Ph and with your natural Kh and Gh you fall into the same category. If you had an outdoor pond and green water I would be giving you different advice, but that is not the case. Good luck and your goldies will do fine in that environment.


  14. It is very possible that your tap water is low in DO (dissolved oxygen) and high in carbonic acid thus resulting in a lower Ph from the tap. Once you transfer the water to the tank it is heavily aerated by your filters and bubblewands, etc. This will lead to a rise in the Ph in the tank.

     

    It's quite common and I'll take a guess that if you aerate the tap water heavily, and use the same kits, your Ph readings should be very close. 

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