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  1. yes, i have found this, and in the same fish. i have sedated 3 different fish, each took their own time responding to the sedation. Leon was sedated 8 times. he was consistent with his times, approximately 7 minutes to be fully sedated. the first few times, i pulled him out at 5 minutes, it wasn't enough. so he went in again for another 2-3 minutes and that was plenty. from there, i learned that he needed the full 10 minutes to be on the lighter side of fully sedated. he woke very quickly in the recovery tank. on a few occasions, i had to wake Leon and then re-sedate him to stop blood flow from incisions that weren't clotting as expected. on the second round, he was asleep faster and woke in record time afterwards. Chubber Chu needed approximately 15 minutes to be fully sedated, she needed longer to wake. i never felt that i would lose her tho, she was making small recovery signs and i knew that holding her over the air disc, that she would come to, eventually. and that she did. another fish i had was a small fantail. she took the longest to be sedated. almost 16 minutes before i could manage her. i took her out at 8 minutes, then 12 and then at 16 minutes. she woke in good time, but i did need to hold her also. none of my fish struggled or showed any signs of discomfort using the clove oil for sedation.. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- now..to address jetman73 Unless they don't. I've seen it with clove oil and heard stories but never with MS-222 unless it is purposely overdosed - and there you have it . What scares me about clove oil is the OIL factor and that it is no doubt coating the delicate gill filaments.- and even if it does, it is very short term, otherwise i would have lost all the fish i made procedures on. For the OP MS-222 would be ideal and has a solid track record behind it. - in my experiences, clove oil has a very solid track record too. jetman73 - MS-222 is not available to the public in Australia... therefore, we use clove oil. Just because you can't obtain MS-222 doesn't mean that is not a superior product. It was an alternative I offered to the OP based on my experience. The truth is some of the advice you give on here would make the real experts cringe. Maybe if you opened your mind and were willing to understand better ways of doing things you could improve not only as a fishkeeper but as a mod who helps these people. For me,I'm done with this place because I can only hold my tongue so long. Peace out.
  2. You're getting way ahead of yourself and I'm tired of derailing this thread. To sum up my thoughts: I have seen first hand and heard of many people that have lost fish using Clove Oil I have never had that problem but did have delayed inducement and recovery I have no clue if it causes permanent damage but it IS an OIL and smells like ham Oil in water will coat gill filaments, especially when you shake it up and disperse it. Every single dealer and breeder I have ever dealt with in the past would never use Clove Oil because it can be unreliable. Most of these dealers handle 100's of thousands of dollars worth of fish if not more. I'll trust them and the few Aquatic Biologists I have had the pleasure of learning from in the past.
  3. Unless they don't. I've seen it with clove oil and heard stories but never with MS-222 unless it is purposely overdosed. What scares me about clove oil is the OIL factor and that it is no doubt coating the delicate gill filaments. For the OP MS-222 would be ideal and has a solid track record behind it.
  4. I'll defer to your experience. Oh wait!
  5. If it comes down to a $35 discrepancy you shouldn't be doing the surgery in the first place and that is why I recommended MS-222. Scraping a fish or checking gills does not require sedation but putting a fish under for multiple minutes does. Clove oil fell out of favor years ago because of the time to induce sedation and the recovery time and that is reiterated in this thread with posters waiting 10 minutes for a fish to roll. That's not something I would be comfortable with, although it never took that long when I did use clove oil. It's also a product that will never be consistent among what posters here are able too obtain.
  6. MS-222 is the way to go. They go under fast and come out fast and it is meant for sedation and more than likely what a vet would use. I've used clove oil in the past and had no problems but would always reach for MS-222 in the future. It is much safer for the fish and less stressful to not only the fish but also the keeper. I always hated when my room smelled liked ham for a few days if I spilled some.
  7. Welcome to the board and I just finished watching one of your videos. Great set-up you have going on there and I'm looking forward to your filtration video. I noticed some of your DIY 2 liter soda bottle in tank moving beds and am completely impressed, never seen that before but I'm more of a pond guy in nature. Ever thought of moving beds on that system? They would probably take up less room and you could get more bio, albeit not as efficient. If you can't use a shower I guess you can't go wrong with a wet/dry set-up. I've seen some killer showers in the past but they were always outdoors and I built a few myself from 15" diameter pipe. Looking forward to your update and learning a thing or two.
  8. In the future you could try using MS-222 for sedation. It is much safer and reliable and the fish recover faster and this is coming from someone who used to use clove oil.
  9. Filtration pictures please and description. Are you going with showers?
  10. I'd agree about the precipitation theory. Maybe the OP can test his Ph just before he turns the lights on, and just before he turns them off. That should give a reasonable level of the Ph swings that are happening daily and possibly why they are losing healthy fish. Definitely need to test for Kh. Excuse or delete my post if I'm not supposed to be giving advice.
  11. Great looking fish and it's nice that you supported a small breeder. Best of luck with them and I still can't believe you got them for that price.
  12. I didn't read the entire thread but when looking for a second hand tank I always prefer something that was used as a fish tank in the past. Push your fingers throughout the silicon seals and make sure it has some spring to it.....somewhat spongy with some give is what you should be looking for. If it feels hard, stiff, or brittle I would pass regardless of the price.
  13. You should lube the o-rings but make sure you use an o-ring lube and not vaseline. Over time vaseline will deteriorate the o-rings and regular lube only costs a couple of bucks at one of the big box stores. Everytime I clean my filters I always put a THIN film of lube on all of the o-rings and/or seals.
  14. Looks great, was that Flame hawkfish representative of the breed? I know absolutely zero about saltwater environments but that fish behaved like a guard dog. My next experiment is either a nano saltwater or 500 gallons of goldfish. If I go saltwater I'll be pulling your ear for advice.
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