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Everything posted by waterpiggies

  1. Thanks for all your kind words [emoji5] [emoji13] !!! I think I may have just seen some spawning behaviour going on!!! Any day now that chubby little female will be releasing those eggs!!!
  2. So I just acquired a beautiful little group of demekins that I plan to breed and wondered what peoples thoughts were. I bought three females, one of which is gravid and two males. Gravid Female Male Kirin female I do have some more males but they won't stay still in my hands. I don't think a top view pic would do them justice. They are currently being housed in a quarantine tub but will be moved on into my display tank in good time. Opinions??
  3. Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo I would love the fry but its your decision my spawning ended up with no fertile eggs I would've been more than happy enough to give you some of the babies had their condition of been been better. The deformities were extremely severe so culling would've been the most humane thing to do. [emoji20] [emoji20]
  4. --11th April 2015-- So it's time for another update! I've been thinking for the past few days about what I actually want to get out of my hobby. My original intentions were to create an aesthetically pleasing fish tank which -whilst acting as an attractive piece of furniture in my house - would serve as something that would help relieve stress which - at the time - was a substantial problem. Anyway, a few years down the line, began buying and selling fish as a way to help me financially support my constantly expanding hobby. Now, I have reached what I once thought was the pinnacle of the hobby - I hatched my very first batch of fry! It was a small batch of only 22 fry which quickly diminished to 13 and eventually (out of my own stupidity and carelessness) to 9. I encountered numerous issues with my brine shrimp hatcheries causing my fry to be left without a supply of live food for a number of days. I think it is safe to say - whilst some of the fry remain alive - this batch was unsuccessful and the chances of a single baby - if any - will grow and develop to be a fish that will not only look nice and that I would be proud to house in my display tank, but a fish that would also be healthy and happy. Just looking into the tub of the remaining fry, I can just see deformity after deformity. Literally every fish has a deformity of some description, be it a crooked spine, an offset tail, a missing fin or a deformed skull. Basically, what I'm trying to say is, I fear that none of these fish will live a happy, painless life. I know it would be interesting to see what kind of traits these hybrids express but it will come at the cost of their own wellbeing, and that is not a price I am willing to pay. I am also expecting eggs from my new demekins any time now and I would much rather put all this time and effort into those as the finished product will likely be much more attractive and healthy. For this reason, I have already disposed of the batch of eggs I hand spawned on Wednesday and plan to do the same with the three week old, deformed fry later on today. This will of course be done completely humanely and painlessly with the use of clove oil. I would like to say a huge thank you to jennie (Betty's human) and motherredcap for their input and advice however I feel that this decision is in the best interests of both the fish and myself. I will post some final pictures of the fry below. I also plan to start a new thread dedicated to the new demekin fry as and when they are laid. Until they, farewell to you all and - as usual - good luck with your own fishy adventures!!
  5. Thanks Jennie! I'll read that in a bit!
  6. That's great news! I think I will definitely be culling very heavily on both batches of fry and with any future batches from this crossbreed. Its reassuring to hear that you had some success from your crossbreed! Would it be possible to maybe see some pictures of the babies? Do you have a thread dedicated to this spawn? Thanks for the input as well! I need all the advice I can get! [emoji13]
  7. --9th April 2015-- My first batch of demechus seem to be doing very well - as usual. I will say though, my extensive research on goldfish fry development has left me somewhat disheartened as the growth rate of this batch is considerably slower that that of the ranchu master, Alexander Vasiljev's top view ranchus. This is of course greatly due to the fact that the babies had to go without live food for nearly a week whilst I was on holiday and Alexander Vasiljev has considerably more knowledge and experience when it comes to this subject. Here are some update pictures of the fry from this morning: As you can see, the new location of the basin has not been a problem and algae has continued to grow readily on the walls of their tub, aiding me in the removal of nutrients (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate) and providing a constant food source for the fry to graze on. It has been 24 hours since I hand spawned the second batch of fry and the results look very promising. I have transferred the bowl the eggs are adhered to into my heated quarantine tub housing my new demekin stock so that the eggs will be kept at a steady, constant temperature of 73° to ensure good development during the embryonic stage. At higher temperatures 80°+, fry have been known to exhibit severe growth deformities so temperatures in the mid 70°s are really ideal for good, steady and - most importantly - healthy development. Here is a picture of the tub holding the spawning bowl: The bowl is secured to the edge of the tub with cable ties to keep it from floating freely. Usually in untreated water, fuzzy, infertile eggs would start to appear around the 24 hour mark, however, seeing as I have treated the water with methylene blue, the eggs do not turn fuzzy with fungus, but rather turn a cloudy white as they begin to break down. I would strongly suggest using methylene blue to hatch goldfish eggs, as fungus can quickly spread from infertile eggs to fertile eggs, rendering them useless. Methylene blue prevents the growth of fungus and kills any developing spores, preventing contamination. Now, as you guys know, I am still unsure of what to do with the fry of these spawns. I understand that this is very good practise for me, but I wouldn't want to have go grow these fry to maybe 2-3 inches and then have to cull them all as I have nowhere to house them. As I stand at the moment, I am not planning on developing this as a line because I simply don't have the resources. I agree with motherredcap that it will be very interesting to see if any interesting, albeit peculiar traits are expressed as a result of this cross but I quite frankly do not want to raise ugly fish should they turn out that way. I will certainly be raising the best selection of these fry after intensive culling to possibly the point where they show colours, but after that, I fear that I will have reached a bit of a dead end whereby I will have nowhere to house the fry and nobody to take them off my hands. I am also expecting more fry from my new demekin stock so I will need to put just as much time and effort into raising them too, who I will likely favour over the hybrid babies as they will undoubtedly look much more attractive by comparison and I will be able to examine the traits expressed by them and how they compare to those of their parents.
  8. Great read and the drawings helped Thanks for the feedback!! Glad you enjoyed it!
  9. --Genetics-- Okay guys and girls, so this isn't a full update but I just wanted to discuss some of the calculations I have made regarding the genetics and traits that will be expressed by these fish once they are fully mature. This is my very first shot at breeding goldfish - as you will know if you've been following the thread - so I'm not 100% sure about all of my calculations here in the way of genetics so do not assume that everything I say here is correct. As I say, I am a goldfish beginner so if anyone notices any mistakes or errors in any of my calculations, please tell me!!  While my knowledge of raising the fry themselves may not be the best, I do have a keen interest in and relatively good knowledge of genetics due to my previous experiences with guppy breeding. By drawing a basic punnet square, I was able to calculate that in the first generation of fry (F1), the telescope eye trait will not be expressed and will lie dormant. This is due to the fact that all the male gametes (sperms) from the demekins were carrying telescope eye genes whereas all the female gametes (eggs) from the ranchu possessed the ordinary, flat eyed genes. For those of you who don't know, telescope eyes are a 'homozygous recessive' and normal eyes are 'homozygous dominant' meaning that the only traits that will be expressed from this spawning will be normal eyes, however all the babies will still carry the dormant telescope eye gene - it just won't be expressed. To help you understand this, here is a basic punnet square I drew to represent this cross: The recessive genes are represented by a lower case 't' whereas the dominant genes are represented by an upper case 'T'. As this punnet square represents, the only allele that will be expressed by the fry in F1 will be that of the female who we know is a ranchu. In other words - no telescope eyes for any of the fry in F1. When these fry reach maturity, I would continue the line (line breeding) in order to preserve the genes and - in an effect - strengthen the gene pool of the line. I could do this in a number of ways. The first way and the way most people would probably go about breeding would be to go out to the pet store or a breeder and select a nice fish of the opposing sex and breed that with the fish from F1. This is called outcrossing and should only really be performed when beginning a line at the origin (O) or if/when new genetics need to be introduced to the line be it for a new colouration, or if copious amounts of inbreeding has weakened the fish and new genetics are desperately needed. The way I would go about producing the second generation (F2) would be by performing a 'back cross' to the father of the babies. Here, another punnet square shows the outcome of this spawn: So as you can see, F2 gives us some very interesting results! Roughly 50% of the resulting fry will express the telescope eye allele with the other 50% expressing normal eyes. This is because in two of the boxes, the homozygous dominant allele (normal eyes) is present causing the homozygous recessive allele to lie dominant. The resulting fish is called a 'carrier' of the telescope eye trait. In the other two boxes, there is no homozygous dominant allele and thus, the resulting babies will express the telescope eye trait!! So, in short what I'm saying is, the F1 babies from this crossbreed will not express the telescope eye trait, however in F2, roughly 50% of the fry will! [emoji5] [emoji5] I apologise if this has been confusing to any of you reading this. It isn't that hard to get your head around after a little bit of research though. Punnet squares are extremely powerful tools in the world of genetics and they allow us fishkeepers to make extremely accurate predictions on the outcomes of virtually any spawn so to any of you who are hoping to start breeding your fish seriously, I word really recommend researching them and learning how to use them! [emoji5]
  10. I don't think I've seen that thread. I saw a few others about her and her dropsy, poor thing [emoji26] [emoji26] I'll looks at that one in a bit though
  11. --8th April 2015-- So as you guys know, the fry I am raising are actually a ranchu demekin cross - not pure demekin as I had originally thought. I was originally quite upset by this as I really wanted to be able to see the fry develop and become ever-more resemblant of their demekin parents and develop the unique traits possessed by their parents. The first option that came into my head was disposal by some means - be it by culling or even rehoming, but then after getting some great advice/inspiration from Motherredcap I decided to keep the fry and raise them as telechus (telescope x ranchus) So, now that I have ranchu attributes to consider, I really need to reconsider my future plans for these fish. In order to be able to develop these fish to their fullest potential, some big changes are going to have to be made to my raising methods. For example: I will be culling considerably more heavily as a larger percentage of the fry will be of substandard quality. I will be culling out different traitgrowth.fish with dorsal fins. I will be grooming the fish in shallow water as opposed to deep water. I will be raising the babies in green water in order to encourage good wen growth. So that is just a small list of what are - in my opinion - the most drastic changes I will need to make to their future living arrangements. GOOD NEWS!!!! So, some of you may be thinking 'how on earth is this guy going to find any fish of decent quality in a batch of 13 fry?'... Well, this morning, just as my new shipment of demekins arrived, I saw my fish at it again, so I quickly ran over to the tank to see my black ranchu being chased all over the tank by two of my male demekins and a light scattering of eggs sprawled across the bottom of the tank. I quickly grabbed a bowl and hand spawned them so that I wouldn't have to move all my fish out onto a separate tank to be able to raise the babies in the main one. Being my first hand spawn I was in awe at how these eggs just came flowing out of her into the bowl. I repeated the same process with both of the males from the tank making sure to swirl the eggs into the water to prevent clumping. All round I think it was a pretty successful spawn and I now have quite a large batch consisting of a couple of hundred eggs. The bowl is now floating in my quarantine tank with my new demekins at a regular temperature of 73°. Hopefully they will have hatched by the end of the week [emoji13] Here are some pictures of the real mother and the new batch of eggs: As you can see, there is a higher concentration of eggs in the middle of the bowl and a lot of the eggs are touching each other. I maybe should've chosen to use a flatter bowl. Do you think this will be a problem or will they still a hatch fine?? I would like to say another huge thank you to motherredcap for her great advice albeit inspiration and I wish you all the best of luck with your own fishy adventures [emoji6]
  12. You'll be pleased to know that I am also in the UK. Leicestershire to be precise. I am not yet 100% sure of what I am going to do with the babies but I think I may go down the route of keeping them, but performing regular, heavy culling.That's awesome to know you are in the UK too . By the way if you ever need to get rid of any baby demekin/ranchu crosses I won't turn them down unless my parents say I cant have anyWell I'll bare that in mind mate! Thanks for the offer. Im expecting to get a fair few more spawns from these guys in the coming weeks and I doubt I'll be able to raise them all to maturity. After culling, ill see how many I have and send you a message if I've got any going. First come first serve! [emoji6]
  13. You'll be pleased to know that I am also in the UK. Leicestershire to be precise. I am not yet 100% sure of what I am going to do with the babies but I think I may go down the route of keeping them, but performing regular, heavy culling.
  14. Thank you so much for the advice. I recently saw a picture on the internet of a ranchu x ryukin and it just made me think the worst I guess. I'm sure there will be some interesting traits in there somewhere. Like you say, I'll just have to wait and see
  15. Hi there guys! So I've got some bad news for you all. I found out today who the real parents are for this batch of fry and it was not who I had suspected. It turns out that this batch of fry is actually a crossbreed between one of my male demekins and my one female black ranchu who had been moved into the tank with my demekins temporarily as I was preparing her tub for a new shipment of fish. I know this will probably be a disappointment to a lot of you who wanted to see the babies grow and develop their telescope eyes and high humps as it is for me too. On the brighter side, this batch has given me lots of practise with my fry rearing skills in preparation for some undoubtedly larger spawns from my new shipment of black demekins who arrived just a few minutes prior to me writing this post :-) My future plans for this batch of fry remain undecided as I really don't know what to do with them. I have no idea what these babies could look like in adulthood but the chances are, they won't be the best looking babies [emoji26] [emoji20] I really don't have the time or money to be raising fry who are likely of such low quality and have no idea what to do with them. Should I sell them to someone as culls?? Continue to raise them??? Humanely dispose of them?? Someone please tell me what I should do. [emoji20] [emoji20] [emoji20]
  16. --7th April 2015-- I apologise for having not updated this thread for so long. It appears growth has slowed somewhat in the fry so daily updates will now stop and I will instead give larger, weekly updates with lots of photos and hopefully some more drastic changes that I can keep you up to date with. My last update was on the 3rd of April 2015 (4 days ago) and quite a few considerable changes have been made - not only with the fry themselves, but with the entire setup and their housing. The fry have been growing and developing at quite a noticeable rate over the past few days, so I felt it right to provide just a bit more space for them. My 13 fry are now spread out across two separate basins rather than one giving me a bit more flexibility and peace of mind when it comes to water changes. The basins have also now been moved from my windowsill to a location where they still get some sunlight, but not quite as much as they did previously. I did this mainly for aesthetic reasons as the basins didn't look to pleasing to the eye in the window at the front of the house. I am still maintaining a healthy amount of algae in the tubs though - despite the reduction in lighting intensity - and I am still managing to promote plenty of new growth between water changes. I have also -I am sad to say- experienced the first major die-offs with this batch of fry. As you may have picked up on earlier, the population has dropped quite drastically over the past few days from 22 fry, all the way down to 13! I don't think this is due to disease or malnourishment or anything of the sort if I'm honest as a large quantity of the babies that passed were deformed in some way or another - be it a crooked spine or a deformed swim blayears I've managed to take a few more pictures showing the growth and development of the fry over the past few days for your enjoyment! March 27th 2015 April 3rd 2015 Today (7th April 2015)
  17. Thanks!! Its so good to hear that people enjoy reading my threads! [emoji13]
  18. Hoorah!! A reply! I was about to give up on this thread! They are doing really well. I'll post another update tomorrow. Growth is slower than in the first 7-10 days so there's less to report on but I'll keep you posted! [emoji5] Oh no! Don't give up on this thread! It is very interesting following the updates of your fry! Thanks. That means lot. I didn't think anyone was interested [emoji13] [emoji13]
  19. Hoorah!! A reply! I was about to give up on this thread! They are doing really well. I'll post another update tomorrow. Growth is slower than in the first 7-10 days so there's less to report on but I'll keep you posted! [emoji5]
  20. No responses???[emoji26] [emoji26] [emoji20] [emoji20]
  21. Gorgeous! Could we see some pictures of the parents?
  22. --3rd April 2015-- I'm back!! I arrived home after my relaxing holiday in the Peak District, UK last night having spent a good 5 days there. The fry seem to all be doing just fine to my surprise! I came home to a tub full of brown algae and not a single dead fish! Unsurprisingly they don't seem to have grown much due to the lack of fresh baby brine shrimp in their diet but they are alive nonetheless and are all looking pretty healthy. This morning the babies got their first ever waterchange with fresh tap water. Every time I've performed water changes up until now has been with water from the parents' tank but now that I am a little bit more confident that they will not be too stressed out with tap water, so that will be used from now on obviously dechlorinated with seachem prime. They have also had two meals of fresh BBS so far today and I plan to maybe give them another 4 before they go to bed :-)
  23. --28th March 2015-- So I've arrived at my holiday destination where I am spending the next week without my beloved fry. I've left my fry in their basin having performed a 90% water change last night once again using water from my main tank replace the water I had removed. I also had the pleasure of seeing my fry feeding up close for the very first time last night which is an amazing thing to see. They spend a few seconds staring at the baby brine shrimp wiggling in front of them before lunging and swallowing them whole. When I left this morning, I made sure their bellies were nice and orange and plump and filled with BBS. After performing the water change last night, I took a scouring sponge and scraped some algae off the walls of the parents' tank and ringing it out into the fry tub in the hope that it may grow and provide an adequate food source for them over the next few days. I also relocated the tub to a well lit window with plenty of sun light to promote the growth of some algae on the walls of the tub. In the way of mortalities, I have sadly lost a small percentage of my fry to my own carelessness and a larger percentage to birth deformities such as crooked backs and bent spines etc. When performing the water change last night, I removed I think about 3 fry who clearly had very serious spinal deformities, two of which were already dead. The other was humanely euthanized with the use of clove oil. I also accidentally sucked up 1 baby with the air line tubing I used to siphon the gunk from the bottom of the tank. He had died by the time he reached the bucket probably due to the high currents as he was sucked up. I hope his serves as a lesson to anyone out there who is raising fry or plans to raise fry. The fry are so young and fragile at this age so water current - whilst still important for providing adequate oxygenation - can be lethal to developing fry. Just the slightest of currents such as those from an airline siphon can easily break a baby's spine so be very careful when doing routine maintenance to avoid any fry. I actually saw a man on YouTube (I do believe his name is JahJahBoogie) or something along those lines attach a small pebble to the end of his airline siphon allowing the fish to actually see the object moving towards them and swim away before its too late. I would definitely suggest doing something along these lines as the fry are unable to see the transparent airline coming their way until they are sucked up and either severely injured ore killed instantaneously. I finally managed to get some decent video footage of the babies to which I will provide a link below. I'm afraid that as I am currently on holiday and am unable to tend to my fry for the next week, baby updated will be halted for the time being. I will make sure to provide another big update when k return though as - should they survive - I am sure they will have grown tremendously! I will post an adult update later on today along with a couple of pictures so stay tuned for that. Until then, farewell to you all and - once again - good luck with your own fishy adventures!! This is a picture of the babies in their little tub during the water change. Here they are again at feeding time.
  24. They're hatching fine now! I think I may have been overrun to be honest! [emoji23]
  25. --26th March 2015-- Sorry for not posting yesterday. The last couple of days have been a bit hectic what with work and packing fish for shipping and what have you. Quite a lot has changed over the past two days so I get the feeling this post is going to be a rather long one! The babies are doing really well (no deaths so far). They have moved house into a small plastic basin filled with the water from their original tank. The basin holds about 5 litres of water and houses a single airstone and heater set to 21°C. I finally managed to get my hatcheries up and running and have been able to provide a good, steady supply of bbs to my brine shrimp every few hours. They have definitely grown a lot and - at a rough estimate - are about the length of a fingernail. I performed my very first water change in their new tub about 15 minutes ago, transferring already conditioned water from the tank housing their parents into their tub. The water in the parent tank received a 100% water change yesterday so the levels of toxins in the water are next to none although their should hopefully be some algae spores in there just to act as an additional food source for the babies to graze on. Speaking of algae, I'm going on a 1 week holiday next week and will have to leave my fry here unattended. I've been in contact with a few experienced breeders (50+ years experience) who have all said the fry should survive and I don't really doubt for a second that they will, however, my main concern is that the fry will spend the week without any bbs, dramatically slowing the growth and development of the fish which - from what I've read - could have major impacts on the overall outcome of the batch seeing as this is such a crucial time for them. May I ask what are people's thoughts on this? Would this have any major adverse effects on the fry and their development or would growth go on as usual when I return from my holiday? I also have some very good news to add to the mix! I have found out who the father of the batch is. He is the red and black fish shown in one of the previous pictures, my original suspect. When feeding them this morning, I noticed a line of breeding tubercles in the leading Ray of both of his pectoral fins, accompanied by a few on his operculums. I have also observed him actively chasing the other fish in the tank (3x Demekins and 1x black ranchu) so the mother of the batch is still yet to be confirmed, however my original suspicions have remained the same. I will post lots of pictures tomorrow along with an update on the parent fish which I will make separately for any of you who are not interested in that. I hope this thread is of use to somebody out there. I know I have definitely learned from my mistakes with the original destruction of the eggs and the failure of the brine shrimp hatchery so I hope at least one person reading this thread can learn just as much. [emoji4][emoji4] Thanks for reading and good luck with your own fishy projects, Charlie
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