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Posts posted by Reds12

  1. Once a fish has dropsy, they often have recurrences. You're not necessarily doing anything wrong. But that is a lot of meds . . . . what were you treating for?

    What do you filter your water with before adding it to the tank? :idont

    What size is the tank?

    I filter with a charcoal & floss filter pad. The tank is 55gal.

    As for meds, most was on recommendation from mods on this forum. I'm linking the threads if interested. :)



  2. Good morning! I know I don't say much on here, but I just wanted to thank everyone who contributes. I do pop on to read up on things, I just don't really have much advice to give so stay pretty quiet.

    Anyways...I'm beyond frustrated and hoping for some advice (once again, sorry!)

    Back story - I have 2 orandas that are 4 years old. When I first got them as babies/young'ns, they had dropsy pretty badly, but after about 2.5-3 weeks or so got better. Since then, they have had dropsy more times than I care to count. It seems as though they are more sensitive to off water parameters than I think they would have been if they never had it in the first place.

    - this year alone, they have had dropsy 3 times...this will be the 4th. ugh.

    This is where I'm stumped. I've disinfected the tank, added more filtration, removed potentially irritating decor (sharp, painted etc), added oxygenation, changed water conditioners, changed food, increased water changes, treated for bacterial infections, treated for parasites, treated for fungal infections...nothing seems to be working. I'm now beginning to think a few things.

    1. my water is WAAAY more messed up than I think. I do use API master test kit, as well as API KH & GH tests (which I compare to city parameters on tap water for accuracy) but now wondering about minerals - copper, iron etc, and potential rust? My house is 34 years old with original pipes.

    2. they have some sort of kidney issues - damage? birth defects? who knows. They are pet store goldfish so very well could be malformations for all I know.

    3. I suck at this way more than I would like to think I do and don't know how to read/test water properly or something. GRRRR!


    Water parameters:

    TANK - ph 7.2, ammonia - 0, nitrite - 0, nitrate - 0. KH = 108ppm, GH = 210ppm temp = 72-74 (KH & GH took the range they fell in and it coincides with city survey averages, hence the precise values)

    TAP - ph 7.2, ammonia - 0.5-1.0, nitrite - 0, nitrate - 0, KH = ranges 80-130ppm, GH = ranges 136-222ppm

    I have 2 filters running - both aqueon quietflow 30. Filter 1 has quietflow filter pad as well as Seachem Matrix, filter 2 has filter sponge, matrix and purigen.

    I treat water with seachem prime and filter it for 24hours prior to adding to tank. Water changes at least once a week.

    I have 2 bubblers going, one on either side of the tank. They eat omega one goldfish pellets as well as boiled peas and the occasional bloodworms or algea wafers

    Since april-ish they have received treatments with general cure, furan-2, maracyn-oxy, methylene blue, kanaplex, aquarium salt, epsom salts and a good 'ol hydrogen peroxide dip. Sounds like overkill written down, but they weren't all at the same time, or on the same incident.

    Did I miss anything?

  3. Hey, thanks! I'm actually using the growstones in my pond bog filter and love the performance of them. The tips for inside are helpful, I'll definitely do something like that. I'm building a custom cabinet for the tank so seeing the link now before its finished is great so I can accomodate the filter.

    I noticed you mention that if you had something more in view you'd use a nice flower pot, but might I suggest a galvanized tub? I used one for outside, and it looks gorgeous with the plants and the spout pouring into the pond.

    I'll look around, but ask anyways, do you happen to have a link or list of houseplants that would work for this, aside from the pothos?


  4. Good morning!

    About 2 months ago I added a small bog filter to an outdoor pond and it has worked beautifully for the pond. My water has been crystal clear, parameters perfect, and fish incredibly happy, active and social. I couldn't be happier with it...PLUS, it has been growing some cherry tomatoes, chocolate mint and beebalm for me :)

    I'm now looking at my indoor tank. I am in the middle of moving my fish into a larger 55gal tank, and have been toying with the idea of building a filter vs buying one, since I'm not sure the 2 I already have in there will be enough. I've been having some trouble with some chronically sick goldies...they had pretty bad dropsy as babies when I got them, and luckily pulled through, but now they are super sensitive to any off water conditions so I really need perfect water for them.

    Since I've had so much luck with the bog filter outside, I'm wondering how a small one would survive indoors. Does anyone have any experience with this? Enough sunlight?

    I'm open to any and all suggestions on filter types or more efficient ways to filter the water.

    I'm not including parameters since they are fine right now, this is more of a preventative attempt than anything since I do have to fight with the water.

    I have 2 orandas about 4-4.5 inches each from nose to tip of tail, and 3 serpae tetras about 1 inch each. No new fish, these guys have been together for 3 years or so.

    I currently have two aqueon quietflow 30 filters running, and have slow flow through seachem matrix and seachem purigen. Water changes are about 30% every 5-7 days. I use prime to condition the water and have a bubbler constantly running.


  5. That's a great-looking pond. Where does the bog filter fit in? All of my continuous trickles come from containers of water, dechlorinated in the container, typically holding about 10% of the pond volume. Trickling from the tap is strictly for koi ponds holding kilo gallons of water.

    Or are you concerned about going through the liner of the pond? A bulkhead fitting will make a water-tight passage through the liner.

    It took me a while to figure out your overflow idea. Basically, you are creating a skimmer, which cleans the top of the water. This is a good thing to do unless you have floating plants, which will all go out the drain if they are small and stick on the top if they are large. My water change system draws water from the bottom of the pond -- the dirtiest part -- to create an actual water change. If you add water to the top and remove water from the top, you get very little water changed.

    If this were my pond, I would put in a DIY retrofit bottom drain, (there are simpler versions, this is the most sophisticated) going to a DIY radial flow settling tank, and pump the clear water from the top of the settling tank to the bog filter. That would give you a super clean pond. It is more than is necessary at this point, but worth thinking about.

    Looking at the shape of your pond, I see even more reason to add pond aeration. You don't have a lot of surface area for the volume. It's not that your fish need more oxygen, but rather that aerating the pond makes it less hospitable to green water algae.

    I thought about the container for trickling water it but I wasn't sure about how to move the water...are there pumps with settings low enough to move smaller amounts of water like that? What do you use? I do want to put in a bottom drain, but was procrastinating doing it since I'd have to completely empty everything out. I probably should have done it when I cleaned out the pond this time but didn't have the parts. I'll check out whats around me though and see what is available locally. I have a pretty empty weekend (which is unusual for us) so it'd be a good time to do it if I can get my hands on all the pieces today.

    The Bog filter I just broke down sat ontop of the pond across the back...kind of like a 2nd tier. Somewhat like the pond in this picture:


    With the span from side to side though I felt it was too heavy and worried about sagging etc. I guess with the lighter weight substrate it wouldn't be an issue, but I've already moved passed that. I'm thinking of doing it across one of the back corners...enclose the container in a triangular wooden box for visual appeal. I had used used a bulkhead fitting on the old bog filter and it worked just fine. Sealed with a little extra touch of aquarium silicone for my own mental paranoia ;)

    I think if I can sort out a container of dechlor water to trickle in, I might build a matching box to the pond right next to it to house the container of water inside (along with supplies etc) and sit the bog filter ontop.

    I know the dimensions of the box are a little unusual. Its pretty tall compared to what most people do, but with a 20 month old child who climbs everything, and a jack russell who loves playing with the fish and any body of water he can find, we needed it taller. I've pulled the dog out of the last two ponds we've had and the last thing I'd want is for him to be unable to get out. So I've raised the height and cut divets into the underside of the rail to fit some steel bars across the top so neither of them can fall in. The only way to get the bars off is to remove the front rail, which is easy enough for me when needing to clean etc, but impossible for my son.

    I should probably be a better planner than I am. I typically want to do things right when I decide to do them...which is fun, but also makes a little back-pedaling a part of most projects.

  6. I decided to do a bit of work on the exterior of the pond last night since I don't like the black screws so visible. The idea in my head was a lot nicer, but I think I need wider lumber for it, so I took off the top rails and am putting wider on to cover the screws. It's a work in progress :)

    The filter I totally dismantled. After discussing media with you and your suggestion of materials to use instead of gravel/sand, I did some reading into products. Which led me to reading other products, and so on. I ordered a list of things, so once its here I'll be able to build one that hopefully works beautifully for this pond.

    So here it is...once its 100% done I'm going to stain it with a very, very lightly tinted stain. I want it to look basically like oil rubbed natural wood.


    And a list of things I have decided on for an upgrade... crushed glass and growstones, venturi injector, overflow drain - like in a swimming pool deck. I'm going to push out the top of the wall at the back and create a "step" this can sit in for the overflow. I really thought about the constant trickle, but whenever there is water flow the tap leaks, so until we fix that its a no go, BUT I did find this DIY automatic water filler we're going to give a shot. I'll have to do some mods to it since this one is a huge eyesore, but with the super fast evaporation here with the heat and dry air, it will be a huge help in at least keeping the right amount water in the pond.


    Any thoughts??

  7. I absolutely could put in a venturi, the pricepoint is definitely a bonus! I live in San Diego. I think I might put a bit of money aside for the next couple of paydays and add a UV clarifier to the line. My father in law has a massive koi pond and he says that they are a no brainer. Not 100% necessary, but if you can afford one, then buy one.

    I'll post a picture up later today. I'm finishing up with some maintenance this after noon and will take a pic when its done :)

  8. You're very helpful in clarifying things. Thank you!

    I did do a large water change but it had been about 24 hours prior to the reading I provided so I guess it wouldn't be from the tap water considering my water circulates 100% in about 6 hours.

    I've been looking into products and such today and think I'm going to "rebuild" the bog filter media, ditch the gravel and sand, and check out the recycled glass aggregates you mentioned. I actually spent the day cleaning the pond and moving it to be closer to the faucet so I can do more regular water changes, so setting it up with a continuous flow would work excellently where its at. I've also been thinking today about buying one of the 20g tubs as a step between the bog and the pond so I can add a bubbler I already have and will house young plants and fish until they're ready to go into the pond.

    The pond dimensions are 60"long x 36"wide x 34"tall with about an 18"x20" window.

  9. Those aren't my pictures, but are pretty much exactly the same. I built my box and lined it with pond liner, however I have seen a virtually identical box in home depot building supplies section for $13. Its a pvc cement mixing tub and according to manufacturer is fish safe.

    The sand is definitely intended to be a temp substrate. I find it actually starts pushing up through the river rocks and into the drain, so there is a little bit of sand sitting in the pond underneath the bog filter drain. I was looking at other options for materials, so I'm glad you mentioned those ones :)

    I didn't make it really clear. The filter box has the larger pump in it, which outputs into the bog filter, the smaller pump is in some larger gravel substrate in a planting basket with my lilies and also flows into the bog filter. The planting basket doesn't do much for filtering so I only really consider it a container to keep that pump in place. I had planned on adding a second filter box for that pump just for ease of cleaning.

    The ammonia reading unfortunately is from our tap water. San Diego uses chloramine to treat its water instead of just chlorine. I think its time to put a container in the garage to filter water prior to adding it to the pond so I don't really have to worry about it anymore. Its just such a pain to have values constantly changing depending on the rain situation.

    I am very curious now about something...after reading your comment on algae blooms being rare in an established pond, I went to read a few things since I thought it would be pretty normal in a pond with ammonia when suddenly exposed to increased amount of sunlight. So, I came across this article that discusses algae blooms and how during the day the algae will release oxygen during photosynthesis, but at night it reverses the process and will consume oxygen and let off CO2, so that just overnight a pond with a significant amount of algae can actually deplete enough oxygen and increase enough CO2 to leave the water potentially fatal to fish. I'm now wondering if this may have had something to do with it...

    An algae bloom, plus a high dose of prime (due to the water change and my terrible tap water), both with the potential to deplete oxygen in a pond, may have been just too much for a fish that wasn't at 100%. The water does get aeration from the bog filter drain (the water drops about 8-10 inches into the pond) but towards the bottom of the pond I doubt it has any effect.

    Am I totally overthinking this?

  10. Sorry, yes I mentioned the indoor QT tank earlier because I thought the deaths might be related to either the water or the prime, but thinking back I think I didn't get the prime into the water of the QT tank fast enough for a fish who was already stressed out from the transfer from store to home.

    The values in the form are from the pond.

    The filter box is exactly the type in your link. The bog filter is plumbed like sort of like this: http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/sharpchick/Aquaria/Bog%20filter%20build/1rackforfiltermaterial.jpg

    and is layered 4 inch pea gravel on the bottom, then 6 inch sand, then a layer of river stones at the top. There is an "overflow" drain that is level with the river rocks so once the water flows up through each layer it drains back down into the pond. The box is about 36in x 20in x 12inch. It isn't heavily planted. I have a couple of impatiens and a fuschia.

    For a dewormer I used API General Cure. As for algaefix, I typically dont use it more than once a month, but I've used it twice this week(10 days) since we had an algae bloom with our patio cover being off.

  11. Please fill out this form, since there are multiple problems to address.

    • Test Results for the Following:
      • * Ammonia Level(Tank) 0.25
      • * Nitrite Level(Tank) 0
      • * Nitrate level(Tank) 5
      • * Ammonia Level(Tap) 1.0
      • * Nitrite Level(Tap) 0
      • * Nitrate level(Tap) 0
      • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) pH=7.6, GH=120, KH=120, cloramines - not sure value but definitely there as per city water survey
    • Other Required Info:
      • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API master test kit drops - test strips for KH & GH
      • * Water temperature? unknown. No heater or chiller, I'm going to estimate about 72 degrees
      • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? approx 300 gallons - running for several months
      • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? two filters - pond box with filter pads and bioballs running with a total pond 500 GPH pump, and a homemade bog filter running with a total pond 140 GPH pump
      • * How often do you change the water and how much? about 1/3 every couple of weeks. I add fresh water a couple of times a week due to evap, and the filter pads get cleaned once a week between new ones.
      • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? yesterday, about 40%
      • * How many fish in the tank and their size? 5 fish about 6" nose to tip of tail.
      • * What kind of water additives or conditioners? prime and algeafix
      • * What do you feed your fish and how often? sinking pellets, daily
      • * Any new fish added to the tank? no
      • * Any medications added to the tank? not until afterwards. Since I took them out and put them into fresh water I decided it was a good time to give them a dewormer.
      • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. Salt, but nothing else
      • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? One of them has a little cloudy eye and missing scales. I know he isn't picked on because he is the biggest and the dominant fish. It also looks like MAYBE they are shedding a touch of slime coat.
      • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? Hiding. They always greet me at the window every morning and play in the bubbles.

    The only thing I can think of that would have your new fish one their sides so quickly is if you forgot to add Prime. I have done this. I this may be the problem with the new guys. I put them into the water before adding prime since there was a hole in their bag. I definitely added prime outside immediately though.

    I'll add a couple of pics in a minute

    I'm going to add, though it may not be relevant, that I noticed myself over yesterday and the night before that the water has significantly dried out my skin. I feel like I can't get enough lotion. I'm not sure what would cause this but if it bothers me, could bother them possibly?

  12. Just making sure you don't live on the eastern shore in Maryland... We have another case of water woes in D & D

    I do not, I live in San Diego, but we are going through a stage 2 drought so tap water is mostly run off water atm. Gross.

  13. Sorry,

    ph 7.5

    ammon <0.25

    nitrite 0

    nitrate 5.0

    The water that came out of the tap had high nitrates...prob 60-80 which is unusual, but I treated and retested before adding the fish.

    It also has 1.0 ammonia out of the tap. Ph still 7.5 Ammon and nitrites both 0.

    GH & KH were both about 120.

  14. I've been hit super hard this last month with sick fish and I'm starting to get really frustrated.

    At the beginning of August my orandas in my indoor aquarium got significantly sick and almost died. After a few weeks of meds they made a recovery, but are still coming up to 100%.

    Yesterday I bought two little pond goldfish to add to my outside pond. I prepared their QT tank and got them settled in. Within 30min they were both laying on their sides gasping. I literally tried everything. I tested the water multiple times, changed some out etc etc, I finally said *F* it and stole some from my indoor aquarium. We still lost one overnight but the other looks fine this morning.

    So I go outside to say goodmorning to my pond fish as I do every morning (its an above ground with a window) I don't see any of them waiting for me at the window. Two of them I've had for YEARS and are ALWAYS there. So I poke around in the water and what do I find? A dead fish.

    The only thing these tanks have in common is 1. the tap water and 2. the bottle of prime. Nothing else.

    I've tested the water over and over and our tap water isn't great but it gets within optimal limits with water treatment.

    I'm now concerned that either A) the bottle of prime is bad, or B) there is something in the water the API masterkit doesnt test for.

    I should add I did test GH and KH and both were normal. And both the new fish and the pond fish got new water and prime from a brand new bottle.

    I'm at a loss here, and wondering what I can do to figure out what the issue is. I've already lost one of my long term goldies, and haven't seen two others yet. Two of them are alive, but I want to get them out of there until I can fix the issue, so I need to know what to do with the water to put them in.

    AH! Any help is appreciated.

  15. Hello! I have been using the activated carbon filter pad that goes with my filter - aqueon quietflow - but I've been told recently that there are better things to use in your filter other than that.

    I'm just about to put in an order for supplies so thought this would be a perfect time to pick up some of that stuff too.

    Any advice?

  16. Hello!

    I'm sorry for dropping off the face of the planet! I myself got sick so I wasn't making it beyond the 100% necessity things on my list of to-dos and then we were without internet connection for a bit.

    Anyway, just wanted to say thank you so much! Both of my orandas are back to 100%, happy, and wiggling away at everyone who comes into the room like they're little puppies.

    I've switched to feeding them about 4 times a day smaller amounts - it leaves less leftover food in there with them - and siphoning out the poops everyday/every other day ontop of water changes so I think thats helping a lot!

    George, my girl who was the worse off one, has actually lost the blister on her head. Mr. Wiggles still has his, but he also is seeming to have a bit of wen growth right now as well so maybe thats all it was with him?

    Again, thank you so much! I look forward to reading both of your replies to other posts and learning a thing or two more. I appreciate it!

  17. Thanks for the thorough update.

    Alex suggested at least 10 days on the meds, possibly 14. This helps to ensure that the bacteria is eliminated so that it doesn't become antibiotic resistant. Please continue for at least a couple more days.

    Sure :) Should I continue both the general cure and the furan-2? I'll run out of F2 in a couple of days so I'll go pick up more today if need be.

    Alex, I'll get some photos/video shortly and post them up. Thanks again everyone!

  18. How's it going now?

    Pretty good! They are both active, eating, and being quite social with me. George's gills look great. I honestly have never seen them be able to open so much. She still tires, but I expect that to take a little time...

    I'm still curious about the bubble things on their head though, as those haven't changed...I can't find a thing anywhere about anything that might be similar.

    Good to hear they are doing well! Regarding George's gills, she is probably getting relief from the gill flukes that are being done a way with. Can you do a summary post that indicates the meds used and how many days the treatment has been happening. I know that Alex required 14 days of treatment. I think it was Day 1 meds/Prime, Day 2 Prime, Day 3 100% wc meds/Prime, Day 4 Prime, so on and so on until Day 14, correct? Remind us of the treatment plan so that Alex or another mod doesn't have to re-read the thread. Thanks!

    If one of the mods doesn't respond by the morning on the bubble things, I'll "report" the post so that it gets the mods attention.

    Thanks guys! Ok, so this is a summary of what I did...

    Aug 1 - Day 1 - 100% water change (into QT), prime, and a hydrogen peroxide dip before heading into QT

    Day 2 - 100% water change, prime, general cure, furan-2

    Day 3 - prime

    Day 4 - 100% water change, prime, general cure, furan-2, epsom salts

    Aug 5 - Day 5 - prime

    Day 6 - 100% water change, prime, general cure, furan-2, epsom salts

    Day 7 - prime

    Day 8 - 100% water change, prime, general cure, furan-2, epsom salts ---> I'm d/c the epsom salts today as I don't feel they need them anymore - day 4 of GC + Furan2 so I'm going to d/c today and see how it goes.

    I've also been feeding peas to help with the belly yuck antibiotics can give and some of the bloating, and keeping water a touch cooler to help with oxygen saturation.

    As of today, the red streaks in the tail are significantly reduced, scales are no longer pineconed, facial edema in gone, the black "dot" on George has faded. They're both eating. Gills looks MUCH more open and respiration is with much less effort. They're also being very social again :)

    However, the head "blister" thing doesn't look any smaller...it hasn't gotten bigger since starting meds, which is great, but I still have zero idea what it is. :\

    Note - the HP dip was before I knew what to do, and I thought G was on her way out.

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