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Wen73

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  1. Fish weighs about 700 g. treating for hexamita infection. I live in Australia so only have human metro tabs. Planning on dissolving the antibiotic in a small amount of water and then soaking it up in the dry pellets and feeding. Would do this fresh each time I dose so that the antibiotic doesn't degrade. I'm thinking that splitting the daily dose into two feeds is probably best since this is what we do with humans. I've dosed the water for 4 days (at 600 mg per 100 litres) with some improvment but will run out of medication if I keep doing it that way. Plus oral dosing has to be more effective. I finally found a dose rate in Merck vetinary manual of 50mg per kilogram of fish per day for 5 days. Does that sound about right? Thanks for replying
  2. I have a fish I need to treat with oral metronidazole. I know this forum often recommends oral dosing in fish that are eating. Could someone please tell me the standard Kokos recommendation for how much metro to put in the food and how much to feed. I would be extremely grateful because withoout this I'm going to lose a very valuable and much loved fish. This fish won't be eating for much longer so I really need a timely answer. I have googled extensively but can't find an answer elsewhere and posted all over the place and no one seems to know. Thanks in advance
  3. * Ammonia Level(Tank) 0 * Nitrite Level(Tank) 0 * Nitrate level(Tank) 20 * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.6 Other Required Info: * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API master test kit. Drops * Water temperature? 29 degress celsius * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 550 litres - 3 weeks but with preexisting media * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? 2 cannister * How often do you change the water and how much? once a week 30 % * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? today 50% * How many fish in the tank and their size? 1 Flowerhorn * What kind of water additives or conditioners? Prime * What do you feed your fish and how often? Hikari cichlid * Any new fish added to the tank? Not yet * Any medications added to the tank? day 4 of metro in water 600 mg per 100 litres * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. as above * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? small pit on front of head, white stringy poo * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? Lethargic, hanging at back of tank still eating So this isn't about a goldfish (although I keep them too) but I'm not having much like finding this information elsewhere and I have a feeling someone here will know. I purchased a large 33 cm flowerhorn 3 weeks ago and he became unwell a week ago. One small pit suggestive of early hole in the head disease - although this is getting smaller with treatment. But the fish is unwell. He is lethargic and has had some stringy poo indicative of intestinal lining. In flowerhorns from what I've read a likely culprit of this is hexamita infection. The treatment is metronidazole and most flowerhorn keepers seem to just put it in the water. I'm on day 4 of this and at times I think he seems a bit better and then at other times not. Poo not yet normal. I would really like to treat orally with medicated food because it will be more effective and won't mess with my water quality. And if he doesn't improve on oral medication then I know to try something else. I have a bacterial bloom in the water from the metro and am having to do a big water change daily which he doesn't tolerate as well as a goldfish would. I am also going to run out of medication. This fish weighs around 700 g. I think the best way to administer food would be to soak his regular food in say a teaspoon of water that has the correct dose of metro in it. So what would be an appropriate daily dose of metro in mg? I'm in Australia so access to meds is limited but I can get (human) metro up to a point. I have enough for as much oral dosing as I would need. Thanks in advance for any insight. I know this is an unusal request but I figure treatment of hexamita is probably the same, whatever the species of fish. Cheers, Nicola
  4. Thanks everyone tap parameters as follows nitrate 5 ppm ammonia 0 ppm nitrite 0 ppm It's possible that his eyes could be the start of cataracts, although it looks 3 dimensional and behind the lens, but you do sometimes see something similar when cataracts are not advanced, so I wouldn't rule it out. I don't think it's bacterial, simply because of the length of time he has had this problem, slowly getting worse. I think if it were bacterial it would have progressed more quickly and he would seem maifestly unwell. I'm in Australia so can't access antibiotics anyway. As to the thing on his side - a few hours after the gunk appeared it fell off and now the lesion has almost completely healed. Any fish parasites that encyst in the muscle and then the next life stage burrows out? To me it doesn't look bacterial - because it comes and goes on it's own so quickly without any intervention. I'll go and take some pictures now and try and post them tonight. Thanks!
  5. * Ammonia Level(Tank) 0 * Nitrite Level(Tank) 0 * Nitrate level(Tank) 30 * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines 7.6 * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.8 Other Required Info: * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? Api drops * Water temperature? 25 degrees celsius * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 600 litres recently upgraded from 400 litres - same fish and same filters. been running 2 years * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? 2 cannisters plus one sponge * How often do you change the water and how much? weekly around 70% * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? 70 % yesterday * How many fish in the tank and their size? 3 medium sixe pearlscales - had about 6 months and one large ranchu I've had 15 months * What kind of water additives or conditioners? Prime * What do you feed your fish and how often? Feed hikari oranda and lionhead once daily, plus zucnini or peas daily * Any medications added to the tank? salted to 0.1% and on second round of prazi (tank and occupants have had prazi before * Any unusual findings on the fish 1. My main concern is with the ranchu. Over the last month he has developed white things in his eyes that are getting bigger. You can see them through the pupil at certain angles and they are definitely inside the eye, not something on the cornea. They are bilateral and look like an amorphous white grey shape. Doesn't move. I don't think he can see very well anymore. 2. For the last 3 weeks the fish has been getting spontaneous lesions (twice on his face and twice on the same area of the body) that look like something has burst out of the muscle tissue leaving a wound behind that initially has white gunk sticking out of it that within a day drops off leaving a sore that seems to heal with salt. Today another of these lesions has appeared in the same place on his body and it has a large chunk of grey stuff sticking out of it. It looks friable and I suspect it will also drop off and disappear within a day or so. It's not a cyst in/on the body 3. They have been bottom sitting so am currently terating with prazi. These spontaneous wounds appeared before the przi, except for the mots recent one. * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? All fish have been bottom sitting a bit. Ranchu is less active and faded. I have a six foot tank with 3 pearscales and a ranchu in it. I've had the ranchu the longest - over a year with no problems until the last few months. In the last few weeks he has repeatedly developed sponatneous lesions that appear suddenly and have white friable gunk sticking out of them which then disappears leaving an open wound. The white gunk is definitely not fungus or bacteria and rapidly diappears without any intervention. The second issue is that there is something inside his eye that is getting bigger and affecting his vision The third issue is that all tank occupants have been bottom sitting a bit and I am treating with prazi - seems to be improving the bottom sitting. I am working very long hours at the moment, as well as being busy looking after my family, and although I am religoiusly doing a big water change every week I am struggling with the extra work it adds to my life. I really want to wind up this tank and rehome the fish, but I can't do that unless they're healthy. I can't bring myself to just euthanaise the ranchu when I don't know what's wrong and if it's treatable. It's not possible to capture the eye things on camera, but I do have a photo of the wound that has appeared just today which I will post in a bit. Any thoughts would be gratefully received!
  6. I have to admit, that as a medical doctor, I myself would be pretty cautious with fish that have confirmed mycobacterium, especially where there have been deaths in the tank. Although transmission to humans isn't common, when it happens it requires prolonged treatment for several months with very strong antibiotics, and can be difficult to eradicate completely, requiring even longer treatment. At the very least I would use gloves, and keep an eye out for breaks in your skin. And I would add no new fish to the tank so that when they have all died you can start afresh. Daniel, I'm not sure how the referral process works in the US, but if your primary care doctor hasn't referred you to a gastroenetrologist yet, please make sure they do. From what you've posted this should not be difficult to diagnose, but you will need a colonoscopy, as soon as possible. Good luck getting a speedy diagnosis.
  7. Hi, I'm so sorry that this has happened. I had a recent similar experience with chilo getting into my tanks, but it wasn't as bad as this I hope the moderators don't mind me posting this, but I thought it might be useful information for you. Initially when my fish got infected I thought they might have ich. Many years ago I consulted a few times with a dedicated fish vet who worked in the city I live in, who was very knowledgable and has specialist postgrad qualifications in aquatic veterinary medicine. He had since moved on and worked in aquaculture and research and now lectures at the vet school at the university of Adelaide. Anyway, I got a bit cheeky and emailed and asked him about his recommendations for treating ich and he was kind enough to reply: The lifecycle is temperature dependent in its speed and so the warmer the water is the faster the cycle and hence the easier it is to get the free living stages exposed to tank water treatments. You just have to be careful not to stress the fish at higher temperatures but if you can sneak them up the treatment will be quicker. In my hands the malachite formalin treatments have been most affective and I would raise the salinity to at least 5 grams per litre sea salt (roughly a teaspoon per litre) over 2 days. Seems like a lot but the parasite doesn’t like salt and it will help the stress in the fish. So follow the treatment regime for the commercial product of Quick cure and following treatment undertake a 30-40% water change maintain salt levels and treat again. After a week or so and no signs on the fish water change don’t add salt and you should have a cure. I would watch closely over the next 2 weeks for any recurrent signs and if seen repeat treatment asap before the tank burden of parasite builds up. Obviously with the extra burden of dropsy the salt is no doubt out of the equation and I think you are treating with formalin anyway, but just thought it might make you feel better to know that it is a treatment with veterinary sanction. This is a horrible experience for you and I was really sorry to read about your problems. I hope I read of a speedy resolution and positive outcome for your fish.
  8. Hi Alex, There's a chance I might be able to get a bit from goldfish peeps on a local forum. Even enough to seed the media and make the cycling process quicker. It's very warm here so the bacteria breed up fast. I think I'll give it one more go before I crack down the whole tank. I would really struggle to do a fish - in cycle. It takes me about 2 hours to do a large water change on the tank and I just wouldn't have the time atm (I work long hours, as well as weekends and shift work, plus have 3 kids at home, so not a lot of time in the evenings). The other consideration is I have a large and much beloved pearscale, but I think she is dropsying and on her way out. I've thought for months that her scales are sticking out more and the last 6 weeks or so her wen has grown enormously and unevenly and looks full of fluid to me. (This predates the parasite saga) Behaviour wise she seems completely normal. I had treated her with metro at the end of last year, but I think it might just be her time. Anyway, the point of that is I want to stress her as little as possible and make her last days, if they are her last days, as pleasant as possible, and not subject her to ammonia spikes etc. The worst affected fish, my big oranda, has been in her own tank for a long time and is still on her own in her bigger digs. She is still looking good - I'm always sneaking up on the tank to catch her unawares and make sure she isn't bottom sitting. So far so good but it will take many weeks before I'm sure whether this is beaten. She still has some patches of thickened grey mucous on her sides. DO you think this will take some time to resolve? Or would it be gone if all the chilo was eradicated? I'm not really sure. Anyway, thanks again!
  9. So I ended up doing another two dips at 4x the dose. She lasted 33 minutes for one and 45 minutes for the next one. Before we did the last dip we took her out and put her in clean water, then put a 4X dose of formalin in her tank and left it for two hours to hopefully kill any parasites that might be in the tank itself. Put in fresh water then put her back after her last dip. She is active and swimming and not bottom sitting at all - but I guess only time will tell if the parasite is completely eradicated. I'll be watching her closely over the coming weeks. I think the other fish in my main tank are still not free of the chilo - they look good in the morning but really lethargic by the afternoon. I'm not sure how to tackle this - that tank was treated with a 25 ppm regular dose of formalin for 9 days straight and salted to 5g/litre and it has not eradicated it (unless it encysted in the tank and now they have been reinfected, which is also possible). I tried a dip for the one fish (ranchu) at double strength and at 40 minutes he abruptly stopped swimming and had to be rescued. So I'm not really sure how to proceed. Wish me luck - I still think there is a good chance I will lose all my fish to this It has been a long and very stressful saga.
  10. Well, she looked better after the double strength dip for two hours followed by a day in regular strength, then back out to recover for 12 hours. So the next day (yesterday) I did a stronger dip - I went 4 times the strength, which is still a bit under the 125 ppm. She made it about 45 minutes then started to look a bit distressed so I took her out. I don't think I could go any stronger from an oxygenation point of view either - I had 3 air pumps running and I feel it was only just enough. So she made it through that and I put her back in clean water. I did notice there was some bleeding between her scales on her belly. Is that tissue damage from the formalin (where her slime coat is less thick) do you think? She is looking heaps better and swimming around vigorously again. The question now is, is the parasite eliminated? I will do another scrape but a negative result is still not certain as I only found 2 parasites last time and even then that was only after I sucked up some slime coat that had dropped off in the water and put that on a slide. I didn't find any in the actual scrape I did. I have noticed she still has some of the thick grey slime coat on her sides. Do you think that will resolve with time or is it a sign that there are still parasites there? I have given her a break today - it's now 24 hours after her last dip. Do I dip her again tomorrow? What strength do you think? I was also thinking I need to sterilise the tank she is in. Alex, do you know much about what happens when the parasite encysts? Is the cyst vulnerable to anything? I was thinking that while I do what I anticipate will be her last dip I should put some very strong formalin in her main tank to sterilise that and kill any parasites that might be in the water - then drain it and refill before putting her back in. Any thoughts appreciated and thanks again!
  11. So I'm afraid I wussed out and tried something else. A koi site suggested bathing the fish in a double dose of FMG for 2 hours, then adding water to bring the volume back to the long term bath dose. So I did that today. She's holding steady but certainly not cured. Still has lots of grey slime. So anyway, she handled the double dose for 2 hours without distress so I'm giving her a break overnight and tomorrow morning will try the stronger dip. I've found a few sources that suggest an hour as the length of time to go for so that is what I will aim for if she seems to be doing ok.
  12. That's nice of you to say Alex. I really hope she pulls through. I am hoping her size is an advantage in this, and that she came to me originally in good condition. She has been swimming around in the big tank looking quite good. I know I have contaminated a new tank but I really wanted to see her swimming in a decent amount of space at least once, and take some video and pictures, just in case. I am currently getting things ready for the dip which I will do tonight under close supervision. I'm starting to think about my other fish but certainly won't do anything hastily. That tank has been treated with an ick strength dose of formalin/malchite green for 6 days and been salted to 0.5% for 10. It should keep for a few days while we think about things.
  13. Thanks Alex, That agrees with my husband's maths. I have actually moved her to the big aquarium today to try and ease her stress levels while she goes through this. I will prepare the solution in the small tank that she was in and give her the bath in that tonight, while watching her closely. I realise this could finish her off, but it is her only chance at survival so we just have to press ahead. I'm wondering if I need to dip the fish in my main tank as well. They seem ok, although a bit quiet in the evenings but it was pretty silent with my poor oranda until quite advanced. I'm thinking maybe I should dip them while they still seem well. Something to think about anyway.
  14. HI Alex, I only have them combined - 0.32 mg/ml malachite green and 37 mg/ml formaldehyde. I'll try and do the maths. I have been using 5ml/20 litres of aquarium water, but it's hard to know how long the formalin stays active before it gets bound by organics in the water. Obviously even at this rate as a continuous bath for 3 days, I have not eradicated the suckers. Do you think a short term bath is better than continual immersion? Should I do a salt dip again at some point or is that too harsh combined with the formalin. Urgh, this has been a miserable experience. I think I'll be too scared to ever get new fish again. It's been so stressful. I can't even be sure my main tank is clear.
  15. Hi Alex, I managed to get some slides today (from a toy store with a $12 plastic microscope) and I have a positive ID - the parasite in question is chilodonella. Formalin/malachite green seems to be the treatment of choice from my net searches. Do you have any suggestions as to whether I should do a continual bath or a shorter dip? Any other suggestions for treatment? Thanks again for your help
  16. HI Alex, there is no set length for formalin/malachite (unless it's for ick, in which case 3 days water redose and a further 3 days at a minimum is recommended) - it's really just continue to treat until parasite is gone, which usually requires 3 days or longer depending on how heavily infested a fish is Some people use a continuous bath and others use a shorter stronger bath for an hour or so every day, depending on what you are treating. If you catch parasites early and the fish are in good condition, they usually handle the treatment very well. If they are already weakened then it can really knock them around. For most external parasites, trichodella, costia, chilodonella - wouldn't the treatment be the same? With the exception that metro might work for costia I suppose The small sores have healed. But she is looking a bit worse for wear today, probably from the formalin. Back to bottom sitting
  17. Hi Alex, What would be your preferred method for treating an external parasite? The grey slime coat and small sores on her body make me think it's something other than gill flukes. So I don't think prazi will fix the problem. I'm open to suggestions about what might be gentler but still effective. I'm just not convinced salt at 0.3% will be enough, since there are a reasonable number of sources that suggest you'd need to salt to 0.6% to 0.9%. Koi keepers use salt at much higher concentrations to rid their fish of the same suite of parasites but goldfish won't tolerate the same amount of salt as koi. I feel caught between a rock and a hard place and certainly not in the clear yet. Is metro effective against any parasites other than costia? Thanks again
  18. You might want to give this a try. I have a pearscale who used to get very floaty - she would spend hours each day struggling to reach the bottom and sometimes even flipped upside down. Then she would poo out air bubbles and come back down to the bottom. Like you I tried a million different foods and feeding regimes and nothing made any difference. After every meal she would come to the surface, gulp air and end up very floaty. It would resolve over 12 hours and then the cycle would start anew the next time she was fed. I personally think the air bubbles in goldfish poop are from air ingested at the surface, and are not gas produced as a byproduct of the food we feed them. I think the surface gulping is behavioural and some fish swallow too much air and get floaty (incidently axolotls can do this too). What worked for my fish was distraction. I feed the pellets and when they have finished scavenging them up I put in two pieces of blanched zuchinni in a vege clip, a bit under half way down the tank. By the time they have finished eating these an hour or so later, my pearlscale seems to have forgotten about going to the surface. Since I started doing this she has not floated once and almost never goes to the surface. She's been good for about 8 months. And now that I can feed her properly she has grown a lot as well. So, you may want to give it a try - you never know it might work for your fish too.
  19. So I've gone with my gut that this is probably a parasite and have restarted the formalin/malachite green. I had started the treatment with no improvement, and then stopped it. However, I realised the bottle I had just bought had actually gone out of date, so I bought another bottle that's in date and thought I'd try again. She seems to have improved - less bottom sitting and more reactive. Still eating. My next question is - should I combine this with a salt dip to slough off extra slime coat and allow better penetration of the formalin? Or would that be too hard on her gills? I'm also not sure how long I should keep treating for? Any thoughts appreciated. Thanks in advance
  20. So unfortunately I can't find anywhere in Brisbane that sells microscope slides - if I order online they are a week away which is too late. I tried to take a smear just with a slip cover but it didn't work too well and I really don't know what I'm looking at. The microscope I have is very old and dusty so there are already lots of round things even before you put the slide on. I did see one thing moving but it wasn't anything I could identify. I don't really know what are air bubbles and what could be parasites. I feel defeated and my poor fish definitely looks worse again today. I'd give her a couple of days tops before she dies.
  21. This morning she is back to where she was yesterday - bottom sitting and looking generally weaker. I am having trouble finding a physical store that sells microscope slides but am hoping I can track some down today and find out what this is.
  22. Thanks everyone. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. She's a lovely fish - really friendly and sweet. I hate seeing her unwell. She seems a bit better after the salt dip and isn't bottom sitting as much. I haven't been able to track down any microscope slides though, only slip covers. May be able to use that at a pinch but not ideal. Maybe I can find someone else that sells them tomorrow. I'd really like to know what this is. Do I do another salt dip tomorrow? I'll hold off on putting her in the new tank just yet. She is in a 2 foot 60 litre tank for quarantine purposes but it's a bit small as her body length is almost 20 cm and I'm worried it's adding to her stress. I have also just got rid of my tropical fish and I have a 150 litre 3 foot tank. Just wondering if this might be a good compromise but I would have to sterilise it well first. Thanks again
  23. Thanks Alex. Yes, I think some of her slime coat is gone. Tomorrow I am having a bigger tank delivered. I have been waiting to upgrade her - her quarantine was meant to be over now I am still going to proceed with getting the new tank (400 litres) even though she may not make it. Even though large tanks are a pain to medicate I'm hoping that it might make things less stressful for her. In terms of filtration, I was thinking of removing one of the cannister filters from my main tank. It runs with two sizeable cannisters and a sponge. Do you think if I remove one of the cannisters that the main tank will catch up quickly or do I run the risk of it crashing? And then of course there is the risk of bringing over something from the main tank to the new tank via the filter. I have been running a little sponge filter in the quarantine tank and it is cycled, but there won't be much reserve. Even though I'm not getting an ammonia reading I think there may be a little in the water that is more toxic because of the salinity. Overnight the veins in her tale have become dilated and with orandas that seems to happen very quickly in response to water quality. And her bottom sitting has got rapidly worse. So I'd really like her new tank to have adequate biological reserve. She's getting too thin too, and really needs feeding up, which I can't do as long as water quality is going to be an issue. Any thoughts? Thanks again
  24. Ok, so I did the salt dip. Lasted for 4 minutes and she is back in the tank. She looks a bit funny now - kind of has her head pointing straight up and breathing a bit hard - how long does it take for them to recover and might she need to go in less salty water. Currently at 0.3%. Thanks
  25. Hi Alex, I took half a day off work to try and deal with this. Here are some pictures. It's hard to get good images but you can see the extensive grey patches on her side, and the red spots are the open wounds. All suggestions welcome. She is not doing well. I have also managed to borrow a rather old and primitive miscroscope but it goes up to 400 x magnification so I thought I would try and do a scrape and scope. What is the best way to do that? Thanks in advance.
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