Jump to content

Wen trimming ~ done safely


coco

I was very touched by spillie's thread, that i felt compelled to write this, because i wanted her to 'feel' she can do it again in the future, and for anyone else, (since i was a nervous wen trimmer my self once upon a time). At my first wen trim i was a bag of nerves, but for the love of my fishes, i was gonna do it...

In 4 yrs and over 10+ trims, I've never encountered any post-trimming problems, so i feel it is safe. It's straightforward now, I've never had any deaths or problems(by being prepared), even with my first. * touch wood*

my warnings: DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS IF;

1. You are nervous about holding a fish for a pro-long period of time

2. You have shaky hands in general

3. You think you may hurt the fish, if you're too emotional, it will be hard.

4. They are very slippery, the wen feels soft, but its very tough - sharp sharp tools.

Further warning;

1. A live blind fish is better than a dead sighted fish, so only have a go IF you are sure.

2. A sighted fish will have a better quality of life, but not at the expense of his life, so only have a go IF you are sure.

When i first considered it, i did a lot of research and watched vids etc and followed their way...

Then as you become familiar, you adapt it...

you need:

1. clove oil and a small glass jar with lid for mixing

2. various sharp cutting tools

3. kitchen timer and or someone with a stopwatch

4. air stone

5. 2 identical but different colour vessels (hold 1-2 usa gallons of water, with a large surface area)

6. a lid / tray of sorts

6. natural kitchen light preferred and no background noise and no people traffic

(optional a shot of whisky or skinneygirl margarita in my case, to steady the nerves lol)

clean hands

procedure;

1. Always sterilize the sharp cutting tools, and keep a couple of different ones at hand (big cuts, small cuts, angle cuts, tough cuts, soft cuts). I have them all laid out (you don't want to be looking for it, when in the middle of it). You don't want wen infection.

2. check and clear the table area

3 Fill 2 vessels with clean recently water changed tank water ( i do 1 usa gallon each), sterilize cutting tools

4 put air stones in one and place lid over it (throw in a floating thermometer if you like), you'll be amazed how quickly the temp drops.

5. in little jar, fill it half way, with tank water from the uncovered vessel, add 5 drops of clove oil, close lid, and shake hard - look milky

6 use a container to scoop fish from the main tank, then use hands to move fish into uncovered vessel.

7. add the milky clove mixture around the edges of the vessel, away from the fish.

8. set kitchen timer to 10mins - never leave fish unattended, keep an eye on it.

9. with my finger tips i swirl the surface -manual surface agitation, and to quicken the process, move the milky clove towards his mouth

10. once he starts leaning to the side, test by holding him, if he's thrashing, he needs more time ( if not he's ready)

11. once the timer rings THATS IT -TIMES UP. Any more is a risk.

12. get a good hold (kind of like a new born baby - gentle but firm hold, with head support)

13. i get it so i can feel his heartbeat, but not always possible. That ensures me he's ok, or if you can have him in a position to see his gill movement.

14. I hold with my left hand and trim with my right-hand. ( my oldest fish is now too big for me to hold one handed, i hope i never have to trim him)

15. i use my left wrist to angle his head for the cutting. (Like a camera pod stand angling the camera).

16. i trim over the sterilized lid tray. (i've never dropped one, but why risk it)

17. watch out for the tail, its their strongest part - control the tail, they won't thrash.

18. Get a good hold - enough to avoid slipping, but to control the inevitable thrashing, allow visual to their gill movement. Hand holding her head, position it at a good angles, to cut smoothly, otherwise it will be a raggy mess. As I'm right-handed, the right eye is easy to angle, the left eye is trickier to angle.

I need good light to see, but remember they don't have eyelids, you don't want to shine a bright light into their eyes. so i try to cut in good natural kitchen light, and somehow shelter their eyes from the direct light.

IMPORTANT;

From this point on - Time is of the essence! ;

"1 minute of cutting (out of the water) and 30secs (back in the clove vessel)" - repeat when necessary - need a quiet person with a stop watch - or set a timer etc

My OH stands in the background with his watch, chiming " he needs to go back into the water " / "cutting time up"

With this method, he's continually anesthetised and gets some much needed air, but not pushed over the edge

19. i only trim around the eyes - that's all I'm concerned with - giving them better sight. Besides i love a big wen lol.

20. when cutting - for me - the best cuts are if you are able to slip the blade under the wen, and on the junction of the blade, one snip and its off. The tip of the scissors is the worse for trimming. The junction the best. Before the cut, make sure you haven't snagged flesh etc i read stories about blood drawn - but there shud be no blood, there are no blood vessels there.

If you're not able to slip the blade under the wen, then use a smaller item, and snip at it - like tree pruning.

21. once cutting begins - 100% concentration - multi-tasking - eyes on; the gills, the blade, the wen, the clock - i usually do it quickly, i want them out of anaesthetic mode asap.

22. It takes me about 5-10mins - i want them out of anaesthetic mode pronto. (The longer they are in anaesthetic mode, the longer it will take for them to wake up, and easy for complications to set in), so i do it properly and speedily.

Note: i use to, use bio bandage (cos i followed their procedure), no need now - sterilize the tools and clean water.

23 Once trimming done. Take lid of non-clove vessel, and place him gently near the air stone......now we wait....i keep hold of him in my palm, stops him from rolling, hold them from underneath and gently forward and back, to draw the aired water into and out their gills, this speeds up waking time, then he starts switching, starts coming around, then swishes my hand away, and then i take my hand out, he's in control again. Usually i now start clearing up, with one eye on the recovering fish, by the time i've cleared up, they're total awake, abit disorientated, but awake, then i put them back in the recently water changed main tank, and they swim rapidly around....wooo i can see...

You're in luck I'm doing a HP swab today, so I'll include a bit of wen trimming just to show you. Its not a full wen trim, since he had his done, a couple of weeks ago.

As you can see, I'm swabbing my own skin as well as his. So if it hurts, I'll know too.

The white patch on his tail, is the HP doing its job. Back in the main tank, it will be surrounded by tiny bubbles - couple of hours /days, normal again, and hoepfully taken the red infection with it.


User Feedback

Recommended Comments

  • Regular Member

slept with the window open last night (muggy hot nite), woke up, may have sniifles.....excuse that in the vids

decided to leave the sound on.......abit comical

remember i'm primarily doing a HP swab, but did abit of the wen, just to show how its done.......

Link to comment
  • Regular Member

watching tennis olympics - who's gonna get the gold murray v federer - GB v SUI!!!!!!!!!!!!

Link to comment
  • Supporter

thank you for your wonderful contribution of knowledge to wen trimming :heart

Link to comment
  • Regular Member

YES murray won GOLD for tennis olympics ! :#1

I'm so shocked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Link to comment
  • Regular Member

Wow great detail :) I feel if I ever have too(hope I don't ) I will feel I will be way more confident now. Thank You Coco for the great posting :D

Link to comment
  • Regular Member

This is wonderful! Thankyou Coco for such an in-depth description and show of the procedure!

I dread the day I am going to have to trim my orandas wens. Which is funny as I have said before, because I have no qualms about cutting a lump or whatever off a koi, but put me near a wen, since they used to creep me out so much, and I’m all over the place. Moving Mischa and Rico today when I did a 100%WC was bad enough with having to touch their wens, let alone cut them!

I have three (minor) points to add

  • The first is a general one for any fish surgery and putting a fish under. While clove is an anaesthetic and has been used successfully by many people, it can vary in potency due to being a natural product, and even a pure (99.9%) batch can vary from one bottle to another depending on origin of the oil and concentrations of the active ingredient. This can make it easy to both over and underdose. Clove can also burn mucous membranes, and I have personally found that fish anaesthetised with clove are more likely to bring up food into their gill rakers then those put under with a water-soluble anaesthetic like 222. While clove can work, if accessible when having to put a fish under I would recommend using a water soluble anaesthetic with a standard dose and no batch variation for safety’s sake and to ensure it doesn’t separate from the water, as clove can sometimes. You can also dose to a higher level or anaesthesia safely with such preparations, which will help reduce thrashing.

  • The second is reaffirming what Coco said. Being blind for a goldfish is not that bad. Telescopes, celestials, bubble eyes, etc, all deal with very limited vision (as do even moderately wenned fish). Fish are not senseless when blind, actually far from it. In addition to hearing, tasting, touching, etc, they have a lateral line that allows them to sense low frequency vibrations and other fish, and navigate a tank perfectly even when blind. If you are not comfortable trimming a wen, your fish is actually not that affected by his loss of sight as its main purpose is to find food (which you provide) and avoid predators (of which there should be none in your tank :P ). He’s not going to miss looking at the pretty colours, and if blindness was gradual, like with wen growth, he has been slowly adapting to it as his eyes have been covered. While a sighted fish does have a better quality of life, and I do 100% think wen trimming is fantastic as it increases a fish’s quality of life, it’s not large enough to warrant trimming a wen unless you are confident, capable and ready. Take your time!

  • Also worth noting that while fish will jerk while under, it’s mainly just a reflex action by their central nervous system and not an actual indication of discomfort. They are pretty out of it, and any pain they are feeling from this is very dull as a result. I’ve had fish right under in deep anaesthesia jerk the same. It’s the same thing as when you burn your hand, and part of your CNS (in your spine actually) pulls your hand away before the pain even registers in your brain. Don’t feel like you need to put a fish further under for reflex jerking. If you have dosed correctly, it’s ok, it’s just reflexive.

Edited by Amber
Link to comment
  • Regular Member

That's great information. Thanks Coco, and Coco's OH :-), for taking the trouble to provide us with info, pics and video.

Edited by Isabella
Link to comment
  • Admin
watching tennis olympics - who's gonna get the gold murray v federer - GB v SUI!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you for this great research hun.... I have placed it in the Articles and gave you a Research Medal... thank you :thumb:

Link to comment
  • Regular Member

Thanks coco, I've been trying to get up the nerve to do this.

Link to comment
  • Regular Member

thank you for your wonderful contribution of knowledge to wen trimming :heart

thank you, i felt really bad for not spotting spillie's thread earlier..............

Link to comment
  • Regular Member

Wow great detail :) I feel if I ever have too(hope I don't ) I will feel I will be way more confident now. Thank You Coco for the great posting :D

:) that's why i didn't want to hi-jack their threads with all the details, i do ramble on........

Link to comment
  • Regular Member

This is wonderful! Thankyou Coco for such an in-depth description and show of the procedure!

I dread the day I am going to have to trim my orandas wens. Which is funny as I have said before, because I have no qualms about cutting a lump or whatever off a koi, but put me near a wen, since they used to creep me out so much, and I’m all over the place. Moving Mischa and Rico today when I did a 100%WC was bad enough with having to touch their wens, let alone cut them!

I have three (minor) points to add

  • The first is a general one for any fish surgery and putting a fish under. While clove is an anaesthetic and has been used successfully by many people, it can vary in potency due to being a natural product, and even a pure (99.9%) batch can vary from one bottle to another depending on origin of the oil and concentrations of the active ingredient. This can make it easy to both over and underdose. Clove can also burn mucous membranes, and I have personally found that fish anaesthetised with clove are more likely to bring up food into their gill rakers then those put under with a water-soluble anaesthetic like 222. While clove can work, if accessible when having to put a fish under I would recommend using a water soluble anaesthetic with a standard dose and no batch variation for safety’s sake and to ensure it doesn’t separate from the water, as clove can sometimes. You can also dose to a higher level or anaesthesia safely with such preparations, which will help reduce thrashing.

  • The second is reaffirming what Coco said. Being blind for a goldfish is not that bad. Telescopes, celestials, bubble eyes, etc, all deal with very limited vision (as do even moderately wenned fish). Fish are not senseless when blind, actually far from it. In addition to hearing, tasting, touching, etc, they have a lateral line that allows them to sense low frequency vibrations and other fish, and navigate a tank perfectly even when blind. If you are not comfortable trimming a wen, your fish is actually not that affected by his loss of sight as its main purpose is to find food (which you provide) and avoid predators (of which there should be none in your tank :P ). He’s not going to miss looking at the pretty colours, and if blindness was gradual, like with wen growth, he has been slowly adapting to it as his eyes have been covered. While a sighted fish does have a better quality of life, and I do 100% think wen trimming is fantastic as it increases a fish’s quality of life, it’s not large enough to warrant trimming a wen unless you are confident, capable and ready. Take your time!

  • Also worth noting that while fish will jerk while under, it’s mainly just a reflex action by their central nervous system and not an actual indication of discomfort. They are pretty out of it, and any pain they are feeling from this is very dull as a result. I’ve had fish right under in deep anaesthesia jerk the same. It’s the same thing as when you burn your hand, and part of your CNS (in your spine actually) pulls your hand away before the pain even registers in your brain. Don’t feel like you need to put a fish further under for reflex jerking. If you have dosed correctly, it’s ok, it’s just reflexive.

thank you for more info, well i love their wens, but i love watching them watching me also...

Link to comment
  • Regular Member

That is a great video. Very detailed. I hope I never have to do this but at least I have a visual training tool now. Thank you

Link to comment
  • Regular Member

That's great information. Thanks Coco, and Coco's OH :-), for taking the trouble to provide us with info, pics and video.

You're welcome, my pleasure, just wanted to help out. OH thanks you for the comment.

Link to comment
  • Regular Member
watching tennis olympics - who's gonna get the gold murray v federer - GB v SUI!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you for this great research hun.... I have placed it in the Articles and gave you a Research Medal... thank you :thumb:

I learned alot from these wonderful people too, and i was abit shocked to see it had been pinned - thank you very much koko :D

great info! thank you :)

:D

Link to comment
  • Admin
watching tennis olympics - who's gonna get the gold murray v federer - GB v SUI!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you for this great research hun.... I have placed it in the Articles and gave you a Research Medal... thank you :thumb:

I learned alot from these wonderful people too, and i was abit shocked to see it had been pinned - thank you very much koko :D

great info! thank you :)

:D

We are one big happy kokonut Family :)

Link to comment
  • Regular Member

Thanks coco, I've been trying to get up the nerve to do this.

this helps :lol just a shot though, not the the whole bottle though :alc

That is a great video. Very detailed. I hope I never have to do this but at least I have a visual training tool now. Thank you

:)

Link to comment
  • Regular Member

Coco, I think you are so brave, how you remain calm and collected throughout the whole procedure just amazes me. :)

No way could I ever attempt to trim my Oranda's wens! Hats off to you :)

Link to comment
  • Regular Member

Coco, I think you are so brave, how you remain calm and collected throughout the whole procedure just amazes me. :)

No way could I ever attempt to trim my Oranda's wens! Hats off to you :)

thank you, i had :lol dutch courage

Link to comment
  • Regular Member

This is terrific--thank you so much for doing this! :heart So, so valuable to help others do wen trimmming safely. Thank you!

Link to comment
  • Regular Member

This is terrific--thank you so much for doing this! :heart So, so valuable to help others do wen trimmming safely. Thank you!

I'm so glad you read it, it was primarily for you - not to be so disheartened :hug , if i ever need to do a "full" wen trim will post on here, for you.

I wanna thank you, for at least having a go, remember :lol one helps, not the whole bottle though lol, you had a go, with good intentions............thats all you need to think about...

Should you ever, need to........................start it with a mental clean slate...........................

Link to comment
  • Regular Member

Think i got distracted with the olympic tennis yesterday, but can't see it on the notes, but its

# 5 drops of clove oil per usa gallon # when preparing the vessels.

Link to comment


Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Add a comment...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...